RedDjinn
Dat Hillbilly
LoL Guys this isnt an " Who has the hardest JF's thread " Lets get back to advanced tactics not advanced JF's
"Advanced" Techniques
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Signia
[13] Hero
I agree. Thanks for the RCC info. I've been tapping G at the end of the 66 to cancel it, and that wastes so much time it's hardly worth it. I must say iMCFing after 2A or 2K would be pretty badass :)
Not a whole lot of uses for it though. But a lot of these aren't that useful.
One that's surprisingly useful is getting up back-turned. I surprise a lot of people with a damaging combo often on certain knockdowns.
Oh and thanks for the soul gauge info too, IFB.
Not a whole lot of uses for it though. But a lot of these aren't that useful.
One that's surprisingly useful is getting up back-turned. I surprise a lot of people with a damaging combo often on certain knockdowns.
Oh and thanks for the soul gauge info too, IFB.
ChronoCross889
[08] Mercenary
my best way for guarding against throws, is just to duck, breaking throws isnt very efficient, and if you duck, then ur opponent is open for you to grab back, but then again, ive got good reaction and prediction skills, so throws arent a problem for me. skill in this game doesnt just come from knowing moves, knowing movement, and knowing to put moves together. knowing the moves of your opponent is also very valuable, for myself, i know OF every move every character can make, and can react properly to it, i dont know how to do those moves myself, cause i dont play those chars, but knowing of the moves is very good, once you do, you can easily predict attacks, and combo's and the like. This comes from just playing the game. i've played over 20 000 online matches, and seen just about everything, but you never stop learning. combining knowledge of opponent moves, with knowledge of your own character, is what makes up your skill
TadeMasu
[08] Mercenary
20k online matches don't mean shit. And if you duck grabs, a reasonably intelligent opponent will think to do vertical launchers, if you don't mix up every so often. But yeah a good player is someone who knows their character inside out, as well as the opponents. Or your mixup game is godly >_>... or both.... or just use Amy... derp herp
IvyFanboy
[11] Champion
You can try to duck, but being 100% reliant on it makes you open to mid baiting. You should still cover your guard with a break. I'm always tapping A or B when blocking. I still try to duck, but just in case. It's GREATLY improved my anti-throw game. Also tech crouch attacks are better with very early TC frames. I 4K with Ivy rather than duck in most cases.
Accordian_Man
[08] Mercenary
Here's a question.....
How do you physically tap A or B whilst pressing G?
Do you use the right thumb on the G and the left hand on A or B?
Do you rest the pad on your lap and use your right thumb on G and your right index and middle finger and A and B respectively?
Do you program the shoulder switches with A and B?
Sounds a stupid question, but what is the best way to hold the pad and do these things?
How do you physically tap A or B whilst pressing G?
Do you use the right thumb on the G and the left hand on A or B?
Do you rest the pad on your lap and use your right thumb on G and your right index and middle finger and A and B respectively?
Do you program the shoulder switches with A and B?
Sounds a stupid question, but what is the best way to hold the pad and do these things?
If you're having trouble on pad, I'm assuming you play with your right thumb rather than 'claw' and in this case there are two main ways:
When pushing guard, press the button with the crease of your thumb (about halfway down the inside) then use the top part to tap either A or B - I used to use this method but I warn you - it will give you a callous eventually.
The other main way to do it requires you to tinker with the default controller scheme. If you haven't already, change the input command on two of your shoulder buttons to A+K and B+K. I have them bound to my triggers for this reason.
This way you can hold G and tap your triggers instead which is more comfortable but takes a little getting used to.
Not everybody mashes while guarding though - I for example break against characters with 'ordinary' throws on reaction. I will only mash if there is an imminent threat of ringout, or iCS, Asty's JF throws - times when I REALLY need the break. It's different for everybody though. :/
Do whatever feels most comfortable for you :)
Oh and btw, Yoshi is the hardest JF character - no question, fuck you djinn - debate continues =P
When pushing guard, press the button with the crease of your thumb (about halfway down the inside) then use the top part to tap either A or B - I used to use this method but I warn you - it will give you a callous eventually.
The other main way to do it requires you to tinker with the default controller scheme. If you haven't already, change the input command on two of your shoulder buttons to A+K and B+K. I have them bound to my triggers for this reason.
This way you can hold G and tap your triggers instead which is more comfortable but takes a little getting used to.
Not everybody mashes while guarding though - I for example break against characters with 'ordinary' throws on reaction. I will only mash if there is an imminent threat of ringout, or iCS, Asty's JF throws - times when I REALLY need the break. It's different for everybody though. :/
Do whatever feels most comfortable for you :)
Oh and btw, Yoshi is the hardest JF character - no question, fuck you djinn - debate continues =P
Suirad
[10] Knight
Ya this^ basically. The first day or so can make your thumb joint raw, but once you get that callous you're golden. Alternatively I am always in favor of judicious binding usage. Remember A+B breaks A, if you mash that. Being able to break on reaction is still worth trying to learn once you get your mash down because it will allow you to break throws that interrupt you, crouch throw tech traps, etc.
Suirad
[10] Knight
Well I meant supplement mashing with ability to react as well. Neither does everything for you, but together you can cover most bases.
As an aside, some people used to say you can't mash out of those tiny throw break window throws, but from my experience you just need to mash rather hard.
As an aside, some people used to say you can't mash out of those tiny throw break window throws, but from my experience you just need to mash rather hard.
Actually as far as binds go, what works great for me: for the 4 buttons I have B+G, A+K, B+K, and A+B. I use these with every character I play and its great. Out of 4 inputs there are 6 possible pairs of inputs. The only ones I'm missing are G+K and A+G. G+K is pretty rare to be used and A+G is easy to hit with just your thumb as those two buttons are right beside. This button also makes CF'ing and grab breaking easy along the lines that Syn outlined.
AstPlayer
[09] Warrior
i'd like to see a better explanation about movement cause in high level game they move like crazy bitches but i just dont get that kind of movement =/
Suirad
[10] Knight
This probably isn't what you're asking for, but it's related and can always use more referals: http://8wayrun.com/threads/3d-movement-for-dummies.5277/
A lot of this is covered in the first post, but I'll try to be as complete about describing the movement system as I can in the hopes I hit on what you're looking for.
You can move in any of the 8 directions (though 7 and 9 are closer to 8 and 1 and 3 closer to 2 than 4 and 6 respectively) in one of two ways, step(tap direction once) or 8wayrun(press and hold direction). While stepand 8wayrun tend to be different in predictable ways (whether constant or not, I'm not sure) which direction you are traveling in also effects the properties of the movement.
Moving forward(6)
Unlike movement in other directions, movement forward will not subject you to CHs during the motion. Although it may differ by character, generally characters move forward faster than they move in other directions. Most characters move forward rather quickly. A continuous forward run will eventually turn your K into a sliding trip low. Moving forward is important for closing distance, which in many cases allows for use of stronger move options (often throws, sometimes a good low and rarely a good poke/interrupt.) Forward movement, if performed up close to opponent can push them forward, although some calculation that appears to be based on relative size( i could be wrong on this) is used to determine haow fast/much the opponent is pushed. This moves opponent closer to a ring edge, or the moving character's back away from one, but is rarely used for such purpose. To name a few, nightmare and vader have notably fast forward movement, while algol and talim have notably slow forward movement overall.
Moving backward(4)
Typically the slowest method of movement, but can vary an awful lot by character. Backwards movement is useful for making opponent's marginally in range attacks miss and generally getting out of range of their higher threat options/mix-ups. Backwards movement can also be used to get away from opponent who has their back to the edge(if they have good backwards RO/wall combo capabilities and/or you are winning on life), but take notice it moves one's own back closer to a ring edge. Notably ample back movers are hilde and algol, while astaroth and (I think) lizardman are examples of slow back movers.
Sideways movement (1,2,3,7,8,9)
Often an intermediate speed of movement for a character. Sideways movement can be used to make certain enemy attacks miss and also reposition according to the principles of the thread I linked above. Sideways movement also tends to close distance with the enemy, albeit slowly, and how much it does so can be modified by using the direction diagonally toward or away from opponent(3 closes distance faster than 2, 2 faster than 1.) Quick sideways movement can be observed on rock and (notoriously) hilde, while algol and kilik move sideways rather slow. Characters usually move quicker to the side of the foot they put closer to the enemy (mitsurugi right/ccw, sophitia left/cw for example).
Step vs 8wayrun
Step tends to create a quick burst of speed which can be more quickly cancelled out of. It is usually(though not always) more effective for evading enemy attacks backwards or to the side. Stepping forward cancels quickly into stepping backward or sideways and stepping backwards cancels quickly into stepping forward or sideways. Note this allows one to do something similar to the KBDC(if you don't know what this is, don't worry about it) by alternating 4 and 6, bur it's nowhere near as effective. Step in all directions may be cancelled into guard or standing attacks(includes 8wayrun attacks although the input is a little different.) A certain amount of the step must be complete for the cancel to activate however and attacks can cancel earlier than guard can(guard cancels on the 13th frame of a sidestep.)
When you see players "move like crazy bitches" they are probably repeatedly stepping and canceling in some manner.
8wayrun is more of a positioning tool, it is a steady movement over time which is less likely to make an opponent miss(some moves specifically re-track on 8wayrunners but not steppers). Against moves which do miss 8wayrunners however, it is a better tool, because it will make them miss regardless of intentional delays or attempts at re-tracking opponent inserts, while step is highly susceptible to such tactics. 8wayrun is cancellable into 8wayrun moves and guard. 8wayrun also allows you to face directly at your opponent despite their own movement(for example if you are running towards opponent and they sidestep, you will continue to be aimed straight at them, even if that step would have taken them halfway around you.)
Doesn't answer your question? Re-phrase and I'll try again.
A lot of this is covered in the first post, but I'll try to be as complete about describing the movement system as I can in the hopes I hit on what you're looking for.
You can move in any of the 8 directions (though 7 and 9 are closer to 8 and 1 and 3 closer to 2 than 4 and 6 respectively) in one of two ways, step(tap direction once) or 8wayrun(press and hold direction). While stepand 8wayrun tend to be different in predictable ways (whether constant or not, I'm not sure) which direction you are traveling in also effects the properties of the movement.
Moving forward(6)
Unlike movement in other directions, movement forward will not subject you to CHs during the motion. Although it may differ by character, generally characters move forward faster than they move in other directions. Most characters move forward rather quickly. A continuous forward run will eventually turn your K into a sliding trip low. Moving forward is important for closing distance, which in many cases allows for use of stronger move options (often throws, sometimes a good low and rarely a good poke/interrupt.) Forward movement, if performed up close to opponent can push them forward, although some calculation that appears to be based on relative size( i could be wrong on this) is used to determine haow fast/much the opponent is pushed. This moves opponent closer to a ring edge, or the moving character's back away from one, but is rarely used for such purpose. To name a few, nightmare and vader have notably fast forward movement, while algol and talim have notably slow forward movement overall.
Moving backward(4)
Typically the slowest method of movement, but can vary an awful lot by character. Backwards movement is useful for making opponent's marginally in range attacks miss and generally getting out of range of their higher threat options/mix-ups. Backwards movement can also be used to get away from opponent who has their back to the edge(if they have good backwards RO/wall combo capabilities and/or you are winning on life), but take notice it moves one's own back closer to a ring edge. Notably ample back movers are hilde and algol, while astaroth and (I think) lizardman are examples of slow back movers.
Sideways movement (1,2,3,7,8,9)
Often an intermediate speed of movement for a character. Sideways movement can be used to make certain enemy attacks miss and also reposition according to the principles of the thread I linked above. Sideways movement also tends to close distance with the enemy, albeit slowly, and how much it does so can be modified by using the direction diagonally toward or away from opponent(3 closes distance faster than 2, 2 faster than 1.) Quick sideways movement can be observed on rock and (notoriously) hilde, while algol and kilik move sideways rather slow. Characters usually move quicker to the side of the foot they put closer to the enemy (mitsurugi right/ccw, sophitia left/cw for example).
Step vs 8wayrun
Step tends to create a quick burst of speed which can be more quickly cancelled out of. It is usually(though not always) more effective for evading enemy attacks backwards or to the side. Stepping forward cancels quickly into stepping backward or sideways and stepping backwards cancels quickly into stepping forward or sideways. Note this allows one to do something similar to the KBDC(if you don't know what this is, don't worry about it) by alternating 4 and 6, bur it's nowhere near as effective. Step in all directions may be cancelled into guard or standing attacks(includes 8wayrun attacks although the input is a little different.) A certain amount of the step must be complete for the cancel to activate however and attacks can cancel earlier than guard can(guard cancels on the 13th frame of a sidestep.)
When you see players "move like crazy bitches" they are probably repeatedly stepping and canceling in some manner.
8wayrun is more of a positioning tool, it is a steady movement over time which is less likely to make an opponent miss(some moves specifically re-track on 8wayrunners but not steppers). Against moves which do miss 8wayrunners however, it is a better tool, because it will make them miss regardless of intentional delays or attempts at re-tracking opponent inserts, while step is highly susceptible to such tactics. 8wayrun is cancellable into 8wayrun moves and guard. 8wayrun also allows you to face directly at your opponent despite their own movement(for example if you are running towards opponent and they sidestep, you will continue to be aimed straight at them, even if that step would have taken them halfway around you.)
Doesn't answer your question? Re-phrase and I'll try again.
AstPlayer
[09] Warrior
Thank you for your time Suriad. step vs 8wayrun was the one that almost answered my cuestion, the thing is, I play Asta (a bad steping) kilik (a not so bad) and cassandra (a nice steping) so I tried to move like that with her and started to practice, though I now feel more "faster" i still can't move like a pro, i really dont know if im taping the wrong way cause Im tapping too slow or too fast or if there's kinda like an "order" like "you can have a more fluid movement if you tap 2,4 and then 8,6" or something like that. I also see that if I tap 2 and then 4 i'll step sideways and THEN backwards, but if I dash the buttons presing 24 istead of 2,4 I will actually "dash" backwards and basically thats what I want to know cause when you see top players they actually move "dashing" or at least thats how it looks speacially in big stages or when theres too much distance between them they get close to each other with crazy movement the thing is I cant dash the buttons with cassandra cause if I do, obviously i'll go into AT same with kilik but, when I see Partisan move Im like "how the hell you do that"!!? anyway the question is: how do I move like a pro?
Suirad
[10] Knight
Hmm, well without a video(and some time stamps) I cant be certain, but again I suspect there would be a lot of canceling involved in what you saw; perhaps canceling a forward step into a sidestep, canceling the sidestep into an attack which itself moves your character. 658~8B+K with cass would close a lot of distance while a sidestep right/ccw into her B+K (2_8~B+K) would be very evasive and go a large amount of the way around opponent if she is standing near already.
Doing 464646464 iterations can make you move forward or backward quicker over time, but its marginal and not really very effective like dash cancels in some other games are. In general moving like a pro in SCIV is sort of boring, it's moving safely. Because you can cancel step for every direction into guard, its often a good idea to press it at the end of your movement in case opponent tried to react to what you were doing with an attack. You can also move back and forth(and combine with G cancelable moves) to feint, making opponent whiff something to try and keep you out, or be unable to react when you do actually make an aggressive movement.
Also if you are having trouble canceling your steps into each other because you get stances instead, remember to try and insert a 5(return to neutral) in between the directional presses so you don't get the intervening diagonal (i.e. 452 instead of 42, not that there is a 432 stance I can think of, but its the same idea.)
Doing 464646464 iterations can make you move forward or backward quicker over time, but its marginal and not really very effective like dash cancels in some other games are. In general moving like a pro in SCIV is sort of boring, it's moving safely. Because you can cancel step for every direction into guard, its often a good idea to press it at the end of your movement in case opponent tried to react to what you were doing with an attack. You can also move back and forth(and combine with G cancelable moves) to feint, making opponent whiff something to try and keep you out, or be unable to react when you do actually make an aggressive movement.
Also if you are having trouble canceling your steps into each other because you get stances instead, remember to try and insert a 5(return to neutral) in between the directional presses so you don't get the intervening diagonal (i.e. 452 instead of 42, not that there is a 432 stance I can think of, but its the same idea.)
AstPlayer
[09] Warrior
thanks again Suriad, I've been practising those cancels, trying to make them fast, and I think I finally got it :)
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Signia
[13] Hero
worth noting: 8_2 steps alternating with brief 6 inputs results in very fast repeated steps. 8 68 68 68 68
I think it's just as fast as step Gs that are timed perfectly, but it feels like the timing is much more forgiving, like, the forward dash is buffered, making it so the 8WR state cancel occurs at the first possible moment.
It's effectiveness is character specific, of course. Cassandra, NM, Ivy and maybe a few others have long forward and back steps, and movement back and forth like that can be very strong as the character distances are constantly changing significantly.
I think it's just as fast as step Gs that are timed perfectly, but it feels like the timing is much more forgiving, like, the forward dash is buffered, making it so the 8WR state cancel occurs at the first possible moment.
It's effectiveness is character specific, of course. Cassandra, NM, Ivy and maybe a few others have long forward and back steps, and movement back and forth like that can be very strong as the character distances are constantly changing significantly.
IdleMind
BANNED FOREVER
Thankfully, no.