Signia
[13] Hero
Edit 3/3/12: This thread was meant for SCIV. Everything is different in SCV, tons of this stuff doesn't work anymore. Stuff that doesn't work anymore is labeled OUTDATED
This thread is meant to be a compilation of information on advanced techniques.
Most of us will probably know about all of these, some of them aren't even advanced. But they aren't obvious to the new player, and I had to read a lot of these forums to find this valuable information, which was in many different random places. This is meant to be very noob-friendly. Read the "Newb Silencer" in the list of stickies if you don't understand the terms. Teching is not covered here but it probably should be.
Guard Throw Escape - This is simply holding G and mashing either A or B. This way you can guard and break throws at the same time. It should look like you're just standing there guarding. Doing this while watching for low sweeps is probably the safest defensive option in the game. Mashing both A and B will not make you break all throws, just the one that you hit first once the throw break window has begun. There is no reason not to do this... it makes it so you don't have to break throws on reaction at all. At first, doing this will be very distracting to yourself and it may make you freeze up, but once you get used to it you'll never miss a throw break attempt.
Movement - Proper movement is paramount in any fighting game, or any game for that matter. You need it to control your spacing, and you neeeed good spacing.
SideStep Evading (OUTDATED) - That's right... sidestepping. A lot of players do NOT know how do it properly. In order to evade anything, most of the time 8-way-walking isn't going to cut it. To STEP, flick your stick or tap your D-pad up or down. You are not in "8WR mode" during the duration, but if you attack during the step, and this attack has a directional input in the same general direction as your step, you will do a 8WR move for that direction. Example: 2 3B = 33B, 8 7A = 77A. Evade and immediately attack for guaranteed damage. Not even edgemaster CPU can defend against this!
There is almost never any reason to be 8WRing. The only time you need it is for certain unblockables (Sophita's and Taki's) or if you're Algol or Yoda (they just 8WR for a second). You don't need 8WR for moving around normally, or for 8WR moves either (just double tap for those moves), as there are better methods which will be discussed later.
Stepping does have one minor disadvantage: You only evade to the side for a short burst, length depending on the character you're using. If your opponent delays their attack longer than this burst, you will not evade it, of course, because your sidestep ended.
Advancing/Retreating - The same as the SideStep except for the back and forward directions. If you tap your directions instead of holding them, your character will take larger and quicker steps. This useful after pushing your opponent away from you with an attack; backStepping will create even more space between you two, and your opponent might just whiff his next attack giving you the opportunity for big damage. Stepping-in is needed for closing space quickly and safely after being pushed back so you can begin your mid-low-throw mixup.
Step-Guarding (OUTDATED) - This has many purposes referring to the same technique: hitting G after Stepping. If you hit G in the middle of your step, your character will stop the short burst and guard. This can be used for creating very specific spacing by StepGing back or forward, but its main use is evading any quick linear attacks while still guarding in time for tracking attacks. Very few things will hit you while StepGing. The longer you wait to cancel the step with G, the longer the stepping period where you are evading linears while being vulnerable to tracking. Combine with Guard Throw-Escape after you hit G and you have a solid defense. Delayed attacks will now just be guarded. If you end up evading a linear attack, be sure to let go of G and punish. A variation of Step G is Step 2G.
Repeated Step g (OUTDATED though stair-stepping still works) - This is the fastest AND safest way to move around the ring. While doing this, there is only a short window where you are not evading/moving. As soon as you press and release G, you can step again. Input looks like this: 2 g2 g2 g2 g2 or 25g25g25g25g. Stair-step with 2 g4 g2 g4 g2 or 2 g6 g2 g6 g2 for safe advancing/retreating and ring positioning control. Some characters will be better at this than others. Hilde just looks glitchy when doing this. Algol can have his back to edge of the screen in seconds, and Rock can be up in your face in an instant.
Access to your movelist - This section is dedicated to being able to use any move in your movelist at any time.
Recover Crouch Cancel - Though not as important or effective in this game, the RCC gets you out of crouch and back into standing mode so you can buffer standing attacks. While crouching, you have access to all moves including 8WR moves if you single tap them except your 5,1,2,3 direction standing-only moves. Example: 2A (6) 3B. You have to hit 6 after the move has completely finished (NOW IT CAN BE BUFFERED). Your character will stand up on his/her own but with the RCC you can buffer a move so that you do the standing attack the frame you've finished standing. [really not sure if this is right.]
8WR moves from any direction - Everyone knows you can just double tap the direction of the 8WR in the move to do the 8WR-only move. However you can also do them from a Step (see the Sidestep evade section) or while 8WRing in a different direction. To use 8WR-backwards moves while advancing forward, go into 8WR mode by double tapping and holding forward, and then rotating the stick or sliding your thumb to the back direction without returning to neutral. The input would look like this: 6[6]3214. 8WR moves can be accessed from any direction just by entering 8WR mode (done by holding a direction or double tapping a direction) and then quarter-circling or half-circling to the direction of the 8WR movement your want. So if you happen to be 8WRing like you probably shouldn't be, know that you have access to all of your moves by using this technique for other 8WR moves or by canceling your 8WR with G and immediately inputting a move.
Using Crouching attacks from Standing, or iFC - Often, characters have great moves from Full Crouch, but they're hard to use because you have to be crouching. However, you can use these from standing position simply by quickly crouching and doing the move. If done correctly, it looks like you did it from standing. For example, Xianghua's iFC 3B, a safe launcher that's better in almost every way than normal 3B, is done by holding G, then 2, then 3, then releasing G, then hitting B (G23B). If done perfectly, the resulting attack is one frame slower than if done from crouch (takes a frame to crouch)
Using Rising attacks from Standing, or iWR (iWS) - The same as iFC except for rising attacks, which is done a bit differently. It's a bit harder to do perfectly, as there is timing required. iWR B is done by pressing 2G, releasing G, releasing 2 (go neutral) and hitting B after a few frames. iWR B is five(?) frames slower than WR B when done perfectly.
Methods for getting into Back-Turned (OUTDATED) - Some characters have great BT mixups but have no moves that leave them in BT. One way to get into back-turned is to jump over your opponent. This can be done while your opponent is using an advancing crouching low, or when he/she is rolling on the ground. Another very sneaky way is to wake up in back turned. When you get knocked down, pay attention: if you are face-down feet-towards your opponent, when you get up you will be in BT for a second. To stay in BT, tap 4G in this situation. Input your BT move immediately after hitting 4G for nice surprise attack.
The Guard Impact Situation - It's good to know what to do whenever you see that green flash.. otherwise you will get hurt, or you'll get no reward.
Covering Options in the Guard Impacted State - While in the GI state the only thing you can do is GI back and input throw escapes. Since you can't guard, or duck, you're going to want to GI back so you don't get hit--the question is when to GI. Most attacks that will hurt you most within the 20 frame GI state will be the attacks close to the end of the duration, i17-i20 moves. The guaranteed throw attempt they have is i17. They may throw, or they may do a fast attack, or i17-i20 attack. But they may also do a slower attack, in hopes of it landing after your miss your GI which was meant for a quicker attack. Also keep in mind they may do a low. This seems hopeless for you, but there are measures you can take to bring this down to a safe three-choice. To minimize the damage taken, you should either late-ish GI and throw escape, or guard and throw escape and watch for an unblockable or slow sweep. Once in a while do an early GI-throw escape if they keep getting quick little freebies.
Maximizing damage after a GI - You're going to want to input a move immediately after you hit your GI input. Don't even check if your GI was successful--if you fail your attack won't come out anyway. 6G3B all in one motion, for example. Now, which move? Not throws. 50% of your throws will be broken, so your expected value is going to be 25-30 damage. Only go for throws if your character's throws are just that strong or if your character has crap normal-hit damage in the below i20 range. You want to mix up between i20 or faster normal-hit combo starter and slow normal hit combo starter.
If anyone else has something to contribute, feel free to post.
This thread is meant to be a compilation of information on advanced techniques.
Most of us will probably know about all of these, some of them aren't even advanced. But they aren't obvious to the new player, and I had to read a lot of these forums to find this valuable information, which was in many different random places. This is meant to be very noob-friendly. Read the "Newb Silencer" in the list of stickies if you don't understand the terms. Teching is not covered here but it probably should be.
Guard Throw Escape - This is simply holding G and mashing either A or B. This way you can guard and break throws at the same time. It should look like you're just standing there guarding. Doing this while watching for low sweeps is probably the safest defensive option in the game. Mashing both A and B will not make you break all throws, just the one that you hit first once the throw break window has begun. There is no reason not to do this... it makes it so you don't have to break throws on reaction at all. At first, doing this will be very distracting to yourself and it may make you freeze up, but once you get used to it you'll never miss a throw break attempt.
Movement - Proper movement is paramount in any fighting game, or any game for that matter. You need it to control your spacing, and you neeeed good spacing.
SideStep Evading (OUTDATED) - That's right... sidestepping. A lot of players do NOT know how do it properly. In order to evade anything, most of the time 8-way-walking isn't going to cut it. To STEP, flick your stick or tap your D-pad up or down. You are not in "8WR mode" during the duration, but if you attack during the step, and this attack has a directional input in the same general direction as your step, you will do a 8WR move for that direction. Example: 2 3B = 33B, 8 7A = 77A. Evade and immediately attack for guaranteed damage. Not even edgemaster CPU can defend against this!
There is almost never any reason to be 8WRing. The only time you need it is for certain unblockables (Sophita's and Taki's) or if you're Algol or Yoda (they just 8WR for a second). You don't need 8WR for moving around normally, or for 8WR moves either (just double tap for those moves), as there are better methods which will be discussed later.
Stepping does have one minor disadvantage: You only evade to the side for a short burst, length depending on the character you're using. If your opponent delays their attack longer than this burst, you will not evade it, of course, because your sidestep ended.
Advancing/Retreating - The same as the SideStep except for the back and forward directions. If you tap your directions instead of holding them, your character will take larger and quicker steps. This useful after pushing your opponent away from you with an attack; backStepping will create even more space between you two, and your opponent might just whiff his next attack giving you the opportunity for big damage. Stepping-in is needed for closing space quickly and safely after being pushed back so you can begin your mid-low-throw mixup.
Step-Guarding (OUTDATED) - This has many purposes referring to the same technique: hitting G after Stepping. If you hit G in the middle of your step, your character will stop the short burst and guard. This can be used for creating very specific spacing by StepGing back or forward, but its main use is evading any quick linear attacks while still guarding in time for tracking attacks. Very few things will hit you while StepGing. The longer you wait to cancel the step with G, the longer the stepping period where you are evading linears while being vulnerable to tracking. Combine with Guard Throw-Escape after you hit G and you have a solid defense. Delayed attacks will now just be guarded. If you end up evading a linear attack, be sure to let go of G and punish. A variation of Step G is Step 2G.
Repeated Step g (OUTDATED though stair-stepping still works) - This is the fastest AND safest way to move around the ring. While doing this, there is only a short window where you are not evading/moving. As soon as you press and release G, you can step again. Input looks like this: 2 g2 g2 g2 g2 or 25g25g25g25g. Stair-step with 2 g4 g2 g4 g2 or 2 g6 g2 g6 g2 for safe advancing/retreating and ring positioning control. Some characters will be better at this than others. Hilde just looks glitchy when doing this. Algol can have his back to edge of the screen in seconds, and Rock can be up in your face in an instant.
Access to your movelist - This section is dedicated to being able to use any move in your movelist at any time.
Recover Crouch Cancel - Though not as important or effective in this game, the RCC gets you out of crouch and back into standing mode so you can buffer standing attacks. While crouching, you have access to all moves including 8WR moves if you single tap them except your 5,1,2,3 direction standing-only moves. Example: 2A (6) 3B. You have to hit 6 after the move has completely finished (NOW IT CAN BE BUFFERED). Your character will stand up on his/her own but with the RCC you can buffer a move so that you do the standing attack the frame you've finished standing. [really not sure if this is right.]
8WR moves from any direction - Everyone knows you can just double tap the direction of the 8WR in the move to do the 8WR-only move. However you can also do them from a Step (see the Sidestep evade section) or while 8WRing in a different direction. To use 8WR-backwards moves while advancing forward, go into 8WR mode by double tapping and holding forward, and then rotating the stick or sliding your thumb to the back direction without returning to neutral. The input would look like this: 6[6]3214. 8WR moves can be accessed from any direction just by entering 8WR mode (done by holding a direction or double tapping a direction) and then quarter-circling or half-circling to the direction of the 8WR movement your want. So if you happen to be 8WRing like you probably shouldn't be, know that you have access to all of your moves by using this technique for other 8WR moves or by canceling your 8WR with G and immediately inputting a move.
Using Crouching attacks from Standing, or iFC - Often, characters have great moves from Full Crouch, but they're hard to use because you have to be crouching. However, you can use these from standing position simply by quickly crouching and doing the move. If done correctly, it looks like you did it from standing. For example, Xianghua's iFC 3B, a safe launcher that's better in almost every way than normal 3B, is done by holding G, then 2, then 3, then releasing G, then hitting B (G23B). If done perfectly, the resulting attack is one frame slower than if done from crouch (takes a frame to crouch)
Using Rising attacks from Standing, or iWR (iWS) - The same as iFC except for rising attacks, which is done a bit differently. It's a bit harder to do perfectly, as there is timing required. iWR B is done by pressing 2G, releasing G, releasing 2 (go neutral) and hitting B after a few frames. iWR B is five(?) frames slower than WR B when done perfectly.
Methods for getting into Back-Turned (OUTDATED) - Some characters have great BT mixups but have no moves that leave them in BT. One way to get into back-turned is to jump over your opponent. This can be done while your opponent is using an advancing crouching low, or when he/she is rolling on the ground. Another very sneaky way is to wake up in back turned. When you get knocked down, pay attention: if you are face-down feet-towards your opponent, when you get up you will be in BT for a second. To stay in BT, tap 4G in this situation. Input your BT move immediately after hitting 4G for nice surprise attack.
The Guard Impact Situation - It's good to know what to do whenever you see that green flash.. otherwise you will get hurt, or you'll get no reward.
Covering Options in the Guard Impacted State - While in the GI state the only thing you can do is GI back and input throw escapes. Since you can't guard, or duck, you're going to want to GI back so you don't get hit--the question is when to GI. Most attacks that will hurt you most within the 20 frame GI state will be the attacks close to the end of the duration, i17-i20 moves. The guaranteed throw attempt they have is i17. They may throw, or they may do a fast attack, or i17-i20 attack. But they may also do a slower attack, in hopes of it landing after your miss your GI which was meant for a quicker attack. Also keep in mind they may do a low. This seems hopeless for you, but there are measures you can take to bring this down to a safe three-choice. To minimize the damage taken, you should either late-ish GI and throw escape, or guard and throw escape and watch for an unblockable or slow sweep. Once in a while do an early GI-throw escape if they keep getting quick little freebies.
Maximizing damage after a GI - You're going to want to input a move immediately after you hit your GI input. Don't even check if your GI was successful--if you fail your attack won't come out anyway. 6G3B all in one motion, for example. Now, which move? Not throws. 50% of your throws will be broken, so your expected value is going to be 25-30 damage. Only go for throws if your character's throws are just that strong or if your character has crap normal-hit damage in the below i20 range. You want to mix up between i20 or faster normal-hit combo starter and slow normal hit combo starter.
If anyone else has something to contribute, feel free to post.
moves and 8wayrun