"Advanced" Techniques

kikoshoo said:
Can you explain JF or Just Frame? At what frame exactly the character becomes shiny? I looked but couldn't find details about this.
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A "just frame" is a special move involed usually in a combo of some kind. With a precise input of the correct command, your character will flash "shiny" as you put it. Depending on the character it can do a few things for you. It usually gives you advantages of frames, leads into more damaging combos and things of that nature.

There are Just Ukemi's also. If your oppenent hits you in a way that forces you to the ground. If you hit G and the exact time you either get hit with it, or hit the ground. You will flash and be standing up. Not that that move gives you much advantage, but it will allow you to block faster and not get hit with the rest of the combo you were about to recieve.

HRD
 
every just frame will have a different timing, so there's no real way to tell you 'at what frame exactly the character becomes shiny.' i can tell you that, offline, your character will usually glow the moment you input at the correct time, but i'm not sure if you're asking for specificity or not.
 
SPEAKING OFFLINE TOTALLY:

99% of just frames are done on hit

For example: Setsuka's 1 B : B : .....the 2nd B must be hit on the impact of the 1st B.

This general rule of thumb will work for most of the casts just frame moves.

There is much debate about JF's actually having a great benefit or not. I say it depends on the character. Maxis 6 : B : B : B : just frame is one of the hardest in the game to pull off consistantly. But after the 100 times you try it and you get it on try 101 you find out that you only gain about 8 damage from it. not really worth the time and effort it took to learn it Kinda frustrating. Makes for some cool looking shit though

So take that for what its worth. Im a fan of CERTAIN just frames but not all.

HRD
 
Your character flashes at a predetermined point after the JF has been completed successfully, typically after(not during) the correct timing for the input. In addition to the common "on hit" type JF input mentioned before(some of that variety might accept input a little before or after) there are also ones that want inputs to be made extremely quickly after each other(rather they must be made at a much earlier time in the animation, but for most purposes you can think of them as being based on proximity to each other). Examples for this may include iGDR(214:B) where the B must be pressed in extreme proximity to the end of the 214 motion, amy/voldo 6:6B which requires two very quick taps of 6 followed rapidly by the B, and mitsurugi b:A which requires an A input in a similarly close time-frame after the pressing of B.
 
Thanks for the input. I found out something interesting. JF is done actually (arguably) through inputting 1 frame before the window for inputting that move ends. This was how I discovered Taki A:6 to be much easier to perform. At least for Taki A:6 to work I did it this way. Taki A:6 is one of the hardest because the move itself has only few frame window. YOU MUST TRY THIS AND LET ME KNOW if it's true.

The character becomes shiny and he/she will shout out differently - this is the proof you successfully perform JF.

The#1 advantage of JF is that the move starts at earlier frame and ends earlier also, I think. The other advantages are the effect of the move after, depending on each move from each charc. At least for Taki A:6 it will stun drop the opponent and follow with tech trap or so on. But sometimes you want to do just A6 to knock enemy out of ring, onto the wall, etc. Your call basically.
 
thugish_pond said:
Correction, Takis a:6 is the hardest jf
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That can't be true; Taki's A:6 so far is the only just frame I can do consistently. I haven't tried every one, but Raph's VE B:B is at least more elusive. I only assume Setsu's tricks are tougher.

kikoshoo said:
Thanks for the input. I found out something interesting. JF is done actually (arguably) through inputting 1 frame before the window for inputting that move ends. This was how I discovered Taki A:6 to be much easier to perform. At least for Taki A:6 to work I did it this way. Taki A:6 is one of the hardest because the move itself has only few frame window. YOU MUST TRY THIS AND LET ME KNOW if it's true.
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There's no way that's true in general. Just take every 6:6 input in the game - Voldo's 6:6B or Amy's 6:6B. Here it means 'first', not 'last' chance. Then Mitsurugi's b:A, then Sophitia 236B JF. Or, Nightmare's a :g :A, or a:G+A. There it's not about fastest, it's just a specific timing relative to the startup of :A:, or NM's :aG: twitch.

It's specific to the move. Notation ':' can only mean "press within the particular 1-frame window".

The character becomes shiny and he/she will shout out differently - this is the proof you successfully perform JF.

The#1 advantage of JF is that the move starts at earlier frame and ends earlier also, I think. The other advantages are the effect of the move after, depending on each move from each charc. At least for Taki A:6 it will stun drop the opponent and follow with tech trap or so on. But sometimes you want to do just A6 to knock enemy out of ring, onto the wall, etc. Your call basically.
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Similarly for all this. Some Just Frames don't even glow. Lizardman's 33BB.
They're not all about speed or all about damage; some of them are about being different moves entirely... or only accessible as JF inputs.
So JF just means "execution threshold required."
 
Mandritti said:
That can't be true; Taki's A:6 so far is the only just frame I can do consistently. I haven't tried every one, but Raph's VE B:B is at least more elusive. I only assume Setsu's tricks are tougher.
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You can mash Raph VE B:B pretty consistently, that is generally a consideration for ease of input.

Also about Taki's A:6 I think the best property the move gains is that unlike A6(i14 NC mid mid) A:6 is an i10 NC high mid, which allows you to punish much better(KND off of an i10 move, what?). Obviously it deals a couple more damage which is nice I guess (less than 10% increase kinda unimpressive), and the quality of the KND is I believe different, but I dont recall how(if?) it was beneficial.
 
a:6 is a pain to get consistently, sure, but I find it hard to believe it's tougher than Kilik's JF Asura. The speed of the inputs, and number of inputs, make it seem(To me at least), much harder to do than most other JFs in the game. Maxi's 6B: B: B is probably harder than Taki's a:6 as well.
 
thugish_pond said:
Mandritti post a vid of u doing the a:6 jf 10 times in a row.
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I can neither record or upload vids. I don't have the software.

I'm confused about why you would ask for this, though. I know about 'vids or it didn't happen', but I mean, what difference does it make to you whether this didn't happen?


@Suirad: Yeah, I'd say that makes A:6 an example of a move that doesn't even exist except as a just frame. It's so different from A6 mechanically, when you disregard the shared animation it's like a different move. But this could just be a semantic game.
(btw, the quality is that the knockdown is in place rather than knockback; there's some stun combo that only works if you A:6 in the middle EDIT: Actually don't quote me on that last part. I'm still memorizing Taki's combos.)
 
Kilik's JF Asura isn't hard at all to pull off. Check out my video in demonstration's for reference. It's very easy once you understand the timing of it.
 
Ok. It seems that it's working for me to put Taki's a:6 and abbb jf all of it by inputting the move at the last frame of it's window. Probably just me. But as long as it works for anyone in anyway I guess 'how' doesn't actually matter.
 
Who knows all or most of nightmare`s sc4 combos because i am having a hard time beating the Scbd ai(skilled ones)with him becasue some of his moves are slow.
 
This isnt the place to ask, combos aren't "advanced techniques". I suggest you check the soul arena for nightmare and ask there if after you've looked you cant find anything.
 
I believe your RCC info is off... You dont have to double tap 66 or any direction to RCC ( if you did it that way you would get the double tap directional moves like 66B and such ) , its just one Tap of 47896 at the end of whatever move your doing, so 2A 6 iMCF the 6 is input right at the end of the 2A animation if done right it will look like you just did 2A to iMCF instantly ;)

Once you understand RCC it will help out big time in combos and set ups... Also for retaining max. advantage on hit...
 
As far as hardest just frame goes, I don't see how it could be anything other than some of Yoshi's as he is one of the few characters I know that has just frame moves that even top players will not use because they can't be got consistently. I.e. 4_3AAAAA and 1KKKKKKK series are incredibly hard to get. I thought there was a thread about it where they concluded it's impossible to do 100%. Also I think imcf is harder than taki's A:6 as well, but I haven't played Taki in a while so maybe my memory is lying to me.
 
I honestly dont think Yoshi's 4:A:A:A:A:A is that hard. I can get it a good 80% of the time and I haven't practiced much. I feel that the others (1KKKKK and iMCF) are way harder. But I gotta say 1KKKKK is probably the worst one out of all characters JF's. Then again i have never used Taki or Raph.
 
Actually I think you are right now that you mention it, 4AAA is easier than the other two but its much less useful as its all high. 1KKKKK on the other hand, only the first 3 hits are NC but even so it would be an i17 low with 30 damage and something like -6 on hit or block, if anyone could hit it everytime it would probably be overpowered.
 
Maxi's 6B JF and kiliks GB Asura are some of that hardest in the game. Not that Maxi's 6B JF is worth a shit, ONLY if you get it on counter hit, its only worth about 20 more damage. On NON-CH its only worht 5 more damage
 
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