What's good with Tira? (General Discussion Thread)

My first Tira match vids 8/12/08

Well played. I don't know Tira, but I know some Yoshi (though he is not my main, but I'm pretty sure this info is accurate), so some pointers against Yoshi and how to defend yourself against him.

Yoshi mixups like a whore, but all of his good lows are unsafe (DGF K, 2K, WC 1_3K and so on) so learn to punish him better.

Dragonfly: He can do Dragonfly K_B_A. K is the fast low, unsafe. B is a quite fast mid, and A is a fast GB high. If Yoshi goes DGF i usually duck, because the low is extremely fast. Because A is so rare, I stand up if I see that the move won't hit low. If Yoshi hits low, use your best punisher.

Super Dragonfly: His B is really good. Can be stepped I think, but it's a really fast unblockable. Not sure about A. K does a backflip and heals him. Would recommend stepping/run behind him if possible if he goes into this stance.

Meditation: Well, he will probably do a fast low attack (safe I think), quite slow mid or the UB. The UB is steppable, the mid is slow, and the low is fast, so just block low if he's spinning out of Meditation (spins before he attacks), block low and change to standing/step if needed.

Reflection: He can do A, B, K or BK. A is a fast, unsafe low, B is high, K is a not-to-fast mid. So as before, if you duck, you will get under his high, block his unsafe low, and you can stand up to block his mid.

Intimidation: He will do K, B or A. A he steps back and do a safe low (which he did after almost every 66B), K will make a fast (mid or high, forgot) kick, that has no real use. B will do quite a damaging fast safe mid-attack. The low is really easy to block. Not sure if you can cancel the stance to throw.

Flea: Flea gives him (I think) +frames on block, and launches on hit. Really good move. Flea 66 does that running low, which is extremely unsafe, and A rolls and do a low, easy to block.

Standard: 3AB which he used some is very unsafe, and you can punish this without problems. Same goes for all his lows.

Just some pointers how to get less confused against Yoshi. If you know how his stances work, you can manage him much better.
 
My first Tira match vids 8/12/08

AkazukinChaCha said:
My usual strat is to open strong, land something like 66B or 1A, do the follow up then change to GS to put the big damage threat in. But I got away from that, due to my lack of knowledge on what Yoshi could beat and where he was vunerable. I already fixed this aspect of my game though, by learning him fully last night.

Suiggestions I am still curious if anyone can lend input on:

-Blocking Yoshi's 3B, he is launcher punishable, but the best punish I can find is JS 3B into 44K and hope for a transition. Any other suggestions?


-Tira seems best at mid range, fishing for whiffs and CH's on people moving in. When stuck at close range, aside from what I used, what do you suggest I need to get back to the comfort zone? JS 4B? I haven't tested it much but it may be a key to safely get back into her comfortable range vs up close pressure characters. In GS she is a bit stonger with a better BB and 6A,AAA, but still lacks those moves that get her out of trouble or shift momentum, imo.

thanks

cha cha
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Th punishing I moves you said there are spot on, and NeoRussel takes lots of risks in his game in these vids. He takes risks, but he plays fast with good mind games.
Yoshi doesn't seem like the easiest character to react to a punishing game, so the only thing I can say is to pick him up for a bit to get more used to his transitions.
(vane505)'s advice also seems spot on there.

JS 4B is pretty good, but I don't know how safe it is at all. I haven't been punished for it, yet. My favorite part about that move and most moves in general is that if you can step or do an evading attack after it on block, you can evade verticals. I have always been a moderate fan of 8_9A to force some distance, and most of the jumping attacks seem quite good on block. I noticed that her 7_8_9A or B are instant TJ while her 7_8_9K isn't. I am not sure how much good that would do against someone like NeoRussel though.

That felt more like anti 2A spamming strategy rather than dealing with an ownage Yoshi.

My only problem when she attacks from mid range is that it makes her lows a little easier to see coming. The way you attacked made for a better mind made in my opinion, but I think it becomes a trade off depending the character you against.
 
My first Tira match vids 8/12/08

Watched all of the videos, and i like your Tira, although it's 2 weeks old. I think though you falter on the basics...and naturally unfamiliarity with yoshi was a more HUGE issue than anything having to do with your actual skill. I especially like how you were countering yoshi's stances with WS B, it worked so well, i'm gonna pick that up :) You seemed a bit uncomfortable with the match, which is understandable.

Knowing when and how to punish is a key factor in playing tira.
What do we have in JS. 3B, 4A:A and basically that's it, so yeah that and BB are probably your best options.
GS however you have a good bit, 22A, 6A(my favorite), 44K a well buffered 66666B and so on. 3B is even nicer in GS, as you can land harder combos of your choice here.

Not much more to comment on really, i'll just say work at it, and pay attention to the basic pokes and attacks like AA, BB, 2B, 1B, 33K, 6K, 2K!!! (better than you may initially think) 6B, JS 66K and so on. Play patiently, and try to get into GS where you can do serious CH damage and combos.
 
What's good with Tira?

Anyone randomly ends up whiffing GS 66K OVER your opponent? That usually happens to me when im too close to them or they do a TC move. I used to think it was a high because of this.
 
What's good with Tira?

Tidus_Crescent said:
Anyone randomly ends up whiffing GS 66K OVER your opponent? That usually happens to me when im too close to them or they do a TC move. I used to think it was a high because of this.
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Yup I'm a victim lol. For those having difficulty with the 66K in the 88B juggle: success increases if you're a bit away from your opponent when you get the CH 88B. Then the 22A lands making their hitbox primed for the 66K AT. You can still do it up close but it's more difficult.
 
What's good with Tira?

So Cha, you been hit out of that list of Tira parlor tricks yet? It's been over a week since those posts so I'm guessing your peeps have figured them out by now. :)

JS 44A,A can be interrupted on block by pretty much anything.

JS 6A,B is crazy easy to block and punishable.

JS 66B is HORRIBLE in my oppinion and very punishable as well. 3B is faster and safer. I also prefer JS 66K over this move. Or if you need the distance, 6K is crazy good.


As for good moves, pretty much everything mentioned by HotNikkelz is spot on. The difference between her and a "great" character is that she has 10-15 "solid" moves that often can't be spammed as well at the 5-6 "great" moves of the top characters.

I'd place her dead in the middle of the tier list, personally. She's solid and helluva fun to play with, but I don't think she's going to do very well in tournies.
 
What's good with Tira?

Rico, what list of parlor tricks yet?

Tira struggles mightily in serious competition. She is safe, but only safe on things that aren't a real threat most of the time. She has next to no oki, she cannot maintain pressure well in EITHER mood, her counter is baitable (for me at least), her combo damage is subpar compared to the risks she must take to get it (GS WS K and GS 6A the only exceptions really), I mean... shit. She's tremendous fun to play, and she wins a LOT right now, because people don't know HOW to punish her yet, but my friends do, I told them everything to make me better and to not rely on unsafe tactics.

JS 6A,B IS garbage, but guess what, I still use it mid range, because the 6A part is easily hit-confirmable for the follow up, and the stun the B gets on hit, is a good mix up for throws/3B/WS B.

JS 44A~everything is pretty garbage, the low is totally blockable on reaction, A is interruptable and B ...does nothing and is steppable on reaction.

JS 66B has it's uses though I WISH it f***ing hit grounded like it did in 3 and LOOKS LIKE IT SHOULD in 4. Makes no sense and takes away tremendous oki pressure from her JS game.

I mean, how can anyone try and say she's even close to top? Her damage is inconsistant (how many times have you hit GS 66666 B slightly off axis for like 2 hits, no damage and became punished for doing it?), she's safe to an extent but has no rewards or threats from her safety... She has immense troubles getting up against characters like Lizardman, Sophie and Mitsu. She gets crap damage off punishes (JS 3B, 44K... into failure...yay..). Even her potentially sweet set ups are soured by range issues...reminding me of often doing updraft B, landing behind someone and BEING OUT OF RANGE for a BT 2K mix up, leaving me with only BT B+K....bitch needs a command throw too...

eh, it gets old, and is easily adapted to.

Is Tira capable of winning tournaments? Yea, but not easily. Likley not against anyone who is truly good. It's my opinion that you'd need to just be a better player than your opponent, and the character in that case would be irrelavant.

Will people be ignorant to her tricks even years down the road? Yea. If you wanna consider parlor tricks a success.

Is there potential for her rising above her current mid tier status? Probably not, unless some crazy glitchy garbage gets found with her, or some amazing safe combo set up we somehow have missed...

my $0.02
 
What's good with Tira?

Was someone actually saying she's top? Wasn't me.

I was just commenting on those three moves you listed as moves you used with Tira when you started with her and how they're easily stopped once people know the deal.

I didn't know the 6A,B was so easily hit confirmable though. I'll have to throw that into my game a bit like I use JS 2A,B.

As it stands, most of my "Serious" matches with Tira end up with me putting up a damn good fight and then losing in the end. She can compete, but others do it a lot better. You mentioned Lizzy and GAWD YES does he compete better. I love that reptillian bastard.
 
What's good with Tira?

I have to agree with the both of you, Tira is mid-tier for sure. She's my main and even though she's fun as hell to play as, all her moves can pretty much be easily countered.

As stated, what she has on her side is the fact that not many people seem to play her, therefore don't really know what's coming.

I'd like to think of myself as a pretty good Tira player, but for me though, I'm not looking to win many tournies, if any at all, with her lol. I still have a shitload of fun playing her constantly, though, which I believe is the most important part.

I do prefer JS to GS though, because of the same reasons Cha listed.

Maybe I should take up a second character as well? Who else is really fun to play with? I haven't found anyone close to Tira, maybe besides Setsuka.
 
What's good with Tira?

lostth0ught said:
Maybe I should take up a second character as well? Who else is really fun to play with? I haven't found anyone close to Tira, maybe besides Setsuka.
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ROCK! :O el oh el

I main Tira and second Setsuka. Cassandra's been placed at third and Amy (why is she so easy AND fun to use?) just might take that spot away from her, placing her at fourth.

Anyway, I'm well aware that Tira is far from being the best and I'm perfectly ok with that. I enjoy playing characters that require some work to win. Besides, she's just really fun to play.

As for JS and GS, I'm pretty torn. I love them both. However, there are a few instances in which I like JS alot more.
 
What's good with Tira?

I've been struggling with Tira, and I think I've gotten to a point where I'm comfortable with her, in either mood. I find that it's easier to keep pressure on an enemy in JS as long as you have a stable rhythm in your attack pattern. My usual two mixups are :6::A::B: (to TC into her WR moves), or :2::A::B:. I'm conviced that I need to use :1::A: more, since :2::A::B: sometimes puts the enemy too far to continue the offense.

I also find that if you're having trouble closing distance with an enemy that a surprise :7:_:8:_:9::B:+:K::B: or :7:_:8:_:9::B:+:K::K: can put you right back on the spot, but if you do it too often the opponent will start expecting it.

One of Tira's many difficulties is that she doesn't have many quick lows. GS :2::A: is a good one (S-Low, so it can be blocked high), but as some people have reported (and as I have sometime experienced), there's a ridiculous blind spot SOMEWHERE in its range that makes it whiff entirely when it SHOULD have connected. I think if you're close enough, tossing in a :1::B: every now and then can throw your enemy off balance.

Tira is also lacking some serious interrupts. Her regular :K: is sometimes fast enough to stop characters close up, and a well-timed :4::4::K: can get a fast enemy off of you as well, but Tira struggles against characters who can put on ranged pressure where her :K: and :4::4::K: won't hit (characters like Siegfried and Astaroth come to mind).

I'm going to play around some more and see if I can make use of some of her other moves. Her JF moves don't seem to be terribly impressive or necessary to her game, save for her GS 44444/66666 moves, so I don't imagine there's as large a learning curve with Tira as there is for a more technical character like Setsuka.
 
What's good with Tira?

I'm starting to love Tira's :1::B: more and more. Throwing these out will stop any character who advances low in their tracks, like Sophi, Voldo, Amy or Lizzy. Getting plugged by one of these is sure to throw someone off their game.

I'm also starting to find more use for Tira's Updraft moves. If you happened to have knocked your enemy too far back with a JS :2::A::B: or a CH GS WR :B: or something, you can keep up the pressure by chasing them with a :7:_:8:_:9::B:+:K: :B: to guard crush them and continue chipping away at them.
 
What's good with Tira?

If they don't sidestep and kill you. How safe if her 7_8_9B+K A? If it's any good at stopping steppers and its safe, there might be something to it, but overall, i dunno...
 
What's good with Tira?

Not sure if her 7_8_9 B+K A is safe. The only variations I use normally are 7_8_9 B+K B or 7_8_9 B+K K. I rarely use 7_8_9 B+K A. The times I have used it though, it did stop steppers. But as I said, not sure if it's safe.
 
What's good with Tira?

7_8_9 B+K A is a free 3B for most of the quicker characters, so is 7_8_9 B+K K.

GS 3K~A is really good against step, one of her best moves imo. But in JS she needs her regular A.
 
What's good with Tira?

Yeah, fooled around with 7_8_9 B+K A, B, and K today against some of my friends. None of them are even remotely safe. The only one that "seemed" safe was the B variation and that's only if the GC hits. Not to mention characters like Asta, Seig, and NM can whack her out of the sky and back onto the ground upon the initial jump.
 
What's good with Tira?

I wouldn't use the jumps if I knew the enemy had a chance to whack me out of it, unless I use it sparingly and they don't expect it. The most common use I have for it is chasing an enemy with the GC after a counter hit WR :B:, or a :9::B:+:K::B: to open the match against someone like Astaroth or Night who might open with a :1::A: or something.

For mobility, her best options are still the JS :6::A::B: / JS :4::A::B: / :1::A: mixup, but I've found that it's incredibly easy to escape sometimes. For stepping I usually use JS :2::2:_:8::8::A: / GS :4::4::A: or :8::8::K:.
 
What's good with Tira?

A nice lil mindgame with the updraft is that on certain moves if they tech back, if you updraft, and of course they simply block you can get a stun hit off of :K: as it will hit low...you just really need to know your distance from them.

Yeah, reading this topic has seriously changed the way I feel bout Tira. It won't stop me using her as a main but I wouldn't want to rely on her 100% in a tournament - especially her gimmicks are going to be read so easily now.

I've noticed ALOT of nice moves are absent from 3 and this has soured my taste for her too now that i've gone back to SC3 for shits n giggles and i'm liking the damage she does and charges she has. *sigh* oh well, hopefully they fix some of the whiffing issues and possibly fix the animation for her GS 66B cause it's seriously fucked when you get a hit and they spin out of your range and you end up punished for it.
 
What's good with Tira?

4 me Tira is a pretty solid character. I me her dmg output could be a little better being that she inflicts self dmg
 
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