What's good with Tira? (General Discussion Thread)

HeartNana

HeartNana

[09] Warrior
Seriously? I don't have access to frame data, but as far as stuff thats good?

JS:
11_77K - Safe on block. It also has pretty big range and leaves her BT and hella advantage on hit.
66AA - How good is it? Obviously being NC, big range, and horizontal, its good, but how safe is it and stuff?
11_44_77B - IMO this move rocks. On hit, its enough that WSB is un-interruptible. On CH, it stuns, i dunno if the launcher is free after that, but its hella good imo. Pretty safe too if i remember.

Does she have anything quick like a 2A, but without it being 2A? I keep getting stuffed when I do her slow 2A. Does she have any instant tech crouches without having to do WS moves?
What else is decent safe aside from AA and BB? I just have trouble not knowing what is and isnt punishable.

Also, whats the best way to get into GS from JS? A+K after a round or just hoping i somehow fall into it is the best way.

Anyways, onto GS:
66K is my favorite move right now, yeah it deals damage to herself but to me its negligable. Super fast, long range tech jump mid that on CH deals a buncha damage. On normal hit, still really good.

How safe is 6Aaaaaa? My opponent kept not blocking it, so I dunno how badly punishable it is on block. Seems pretty buff if its decently safe tho.

WSK stun is awesome.

But yeah, what else is just like...GOOD? Any help is appreciated.
 
What's good with Tira?

Rob, IIRC, 66AA is punishable. seems good for whiff killing, i could be wrong, but thats what i observed
 
What's good with Tira?

She doesnt really have many good moves and most can be punished by Sophie's 236B. But a few good ones are 6k and 1A. 6K is a great safe TJ move. 1A is also safe and works on the soul gauge pretty well.

Switching from JS to GS is a pain. The only other way you can is to try to use 44K in juggles and hope she changes.

1 random thing I realized is her (JS) AA doesnt seem to give her much advantage on hit. If she trys to AA again then Taki's AA can beat hers. But (GS) AA does give her enough advantage to beat out Taki's AA.
 
What's good with Tira?

Have you noticed that her GS 2A whiffs like 80% of the time when characters are directly in front of Tira? This is very annoying as the move was obviously designed to be one of her best poke/interrupt tools.

cha cha
 
What's good with Tira?

also...why on god's green earth does JS 66B not hit grounded anymore?
 
What's good with Tira?

AkazukinChaCha said:
Have you noticed that her GS 2A whiffs like 80% of the time when characters are directly in front of Tira? This is very annoying as the move was obviously designed to be one of her best poke/interrupt tools.

cha cha
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That is really bad, I have had it happen to me a good amount in JS also. Overall her 2A is badin jolly stance, but I use it periodically because it looks like it would be a special low instead of a low.

I find that 44A in GS is pretty good if you bait out verticals.

I just personally feel that GS is just much better than JS. I agree with Tidus but in general that Tira's moves are awfully slow and BB also has pretty bad advantage on hit as well. I Find myself using the A+K followups in moves and transitions trying to switch.
 
What's good with Tira?

Hmm, I actually enjoy JS as much as I do GS. In JS her 2A and 2A,B are very good pressure tools, I use a steady does of 1A/66B on people getting up, and mix up 9B+K,B with BT 2K and BT B+K a lot.
A couple of things I find work well in JS is 6A,B performed from mid range usually beats out dash in attacks and even though you rarely get the CH from the B, you can still get a healthy throw/WS B mix up game going. Her 44A,A GC is decent pressure for 'mental frame advantage' and her WS K in JS, even though it doesn't stun, is still a great keep away tool that tech jumps lows and gives her time to set up throw/mid/1A mix ups.

While I agree all things in GS look cooler, JS is still a pretty solid state and in a hard match up, I'd prefer it's saftey and pokes over the self damaging gambles.

that's simply my opinion though.

cha cha
 
What's good with Tira?

Solid input, I just find it hard to space with JS Tira.
It seems to like she gets her attacked stuffed and interrupted easier.

I will agree that there are a few characters that I prefer JS against, but it is hard not be attracted to cool looking and faster moves.
 
What's good with Tira?

Spacing seems pretty good to me in JS. 44A(and its follow ups) are decent spacers, even though 66A,A is unsafe on block, I find it great to go under highs, out prioritize mid range moves and stop long range steppers. I even use it to open rounds sometimes because it beats out a lot of moves. Using 1A max range is far more effective that using it close range and her 22_88 A in JS is pretty safe and a good post-GI ringout option when you have their back to the edge. Also like I mentioned 6A, B is decent and covers a lot of ground, seems safe as I rarely get punished on block of the B, but if I overuse it, I'm sure Tira can be 236B'd by Sophie, as Sophie can do that to ALL her moves ;p

If you step to a character's left and instantly do 11B, you can usually evade 3B's and such and get the juicy CH.

I'm not gonna lie. Tira is not a great character, winning with her is an uphill battle to me, since winning with Sophie, X and Mitsu seem effortless in comparison and those are pretty much my main 4 right now. But she is by far the funnest charcter in the game to me, and far better than she was in 3, so I enjoy it
 
What's good with Tira?

JS 11K isn't safe. You probably were using it at max range. I hate that move honestly not very useful.

66AA is good for the reasons you mentioned. Both hits are very unsafe, but because of the second hit, you may find yourself being unpunished if you stop at the first.

44B rocks, the launcher is free on CH, solid combos

Try 2B instead of 2A. It's cute

A+K is best for going into GS imo, cuz it's the fastest.

GS rocks, and you should try to be in it most if not all the time.
GS 6AAA is safe, but the hits can be ducked and punished. Stand alone GS 6A is unsafe. GS 6AAA is one of my fave attacks period regardless.

Staple safe moves apart from AA and BB
BTW, BB gives good adv. on hit! not sure who said otherwise. Especially in GS!

JS 66K (beautiful long range move)
3A
1A (not perfectly safe, but safe from 236:B)
JS 22B
33K (this is a beautiful move, antistep, RO potential on CH)
WS K
Many GS attacks are safe eg 666B, 22A, 2A+B, 444B, 22B (the GC), 3kA

It's important to note, that GS makes the following attacks SAFE, while in JS although safe-ish, they ARE still punishable by Amy's 6BB.
GS WS A (Use iWS A heavily)
GS 1B
GS 6B
GS 6K
I urge you to use GS 6B often as it shaves the soul gauge well, and the canned 6BK, and 6bK fake are useful.

In GS all attacks that are 444 or 666 have just frames to them, and the inputs are bufferable.
i.e 66666B is a just frame, 66666K, 44444B. Does WAY more damage, and almost always guarantees a mode change. You need to input the direction 5 to 6 times as fast as possible. Her combos can do close to 80 damage if you master this.

The reversal B+K in GS, leads to an INESCAPABLE throw.

44K is one of her fastest punishers in GS, offers combos on normal hit.

Feel free to use her lows, they are hardly blocked..all of them are pretty sneaky. 11A hard to see, 8WR left+K hard to see (used sparingly) and if in GS leads to GS 66666B for close to 60 damage. JS 2A is good harassment (minus frames on hit though). 1K is invisible.

Tira is fun, strong, and underrated. If you want more info on her, feel free to ask them here.
Cha cha, a lot of characters Sophie can punish half their movelist with 236:B, Tira's no exception, but she has a shitload of VERY useful attacks that cannot be punished. I researched them ALL. Many of them aren't terribly useful either. GS is the way to go!
 
What's good with Tira?

hmm, hotnikkelz, you drink some pretty strong Tira kool-aid. But I like your enthusiasm.

I'm no Tira expert, but I enjoy playing her to the point where I would like to main her. Let's go over your quotes in response:

JS 11K isn't safe. You probably were using it at max range. I hate that move honestly not very useful.
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I assume you mean 11B? Because 11K was never mentioned...heck I don't even remember what JS 11K IS.
However, 11B I find very useful, against aggressive characters with linear mids and verts, this move is easy to get a CH on. I know it is not safe on block, but it's only dangerous against characters with a really great WS mid, thus I only use it when appropriate.

66AA is good for the reasons you mentioned. Both hits are very unsafe, but because of the second hit, you may find yourself being unpunished if you stop at the first.
Click to expand...

I do stop sometimes after 66A, but she can't get a mix up out of it at all. If anything I do it to bait a counter or GI.

GS rocks, and you should try to be in it most if not all the time.
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Hmm something about people telling me what to think or do with no actual factual data as to why... doesn't quite sit right with me. However, I don't particularly disagree with this, I am a Tira fledgling perhaps I am not utilizing her GS tech enough.

Try 2B instead of 2A. It's cute
A+K is best for going into GS imo, cuz it's the fastest.
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I use 2B quite a bit...doesn't reduce the efficency or threat of 2A though.
A+K is fine, I use it a lot, but only after a KD usually, it's GI window is impossible to time in a real match and something about being launcher punishable on failure doesn't sit well with me either.

Staple safe moves apart from AA and BB
BTW, BB gives good adv. on hit! not sure who said otherwise. Especially in GS!

JS 66K (beautiful long range move)
3A
1A (not perfectly safe, but safe from 236:B)
JS 22B
33K (this is a beautiful move, antistep, RO potential on CH)
WS K
Many GS attacks are safe eg 666B, 22A, 2A+B, 444B, 22B (the GC), 3kA
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I'm glad you gave JS 66K some love, it is indeed safe and great. 33K is pretty garbage, dunno where you were going with that. I whore WS K all day, I view it as one of her best moves. The rest are pretty obvious.

Tira is fun, strong, and underrated. If you want more info on her, feel free to ask them here.
Cha cha, a lot of characters Sophie can punish half their movelist with 236:B, Tira's no exception, but she has a shitload of VERY useful attacks that cannot be punished. I researched them ALL. Many of them aren't terribly useful either. GS is the way to go!
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I agree is Tira is fun and maybe even underrated ...but good? In comparison to what? Rock? Yun? Yoda?
What is this shitload of VERY useful attacks man? Share the dirt. I can't seem to find them. I win based on my defense and basic throw mix ups with her, to me she seems more like a trick pony than a solid character. I would like you to convince me otherwise.

thanks!

cha cha
 
My first Tira match vids 8/12/08

http://www.youtube.com/user/soulcaliburcanada

Here is my first real competitive try with Tira. This was a session vs a Yoshi player (a very good one) and I lost quite a bit. I can't say Tira lost it for me though, I just wasn't able to see Yoshi's new set ups fast enough and get rung out by random lows into door knocker like 50000 times. Honestly I was thinking about changing my name to "I eat Dragonfly K all day" but it was too long for this forum.

Anyways, despite the losses, I did manage to do some good things with Tira. Please tell me what you think.

Things I already know:

-I tended to use 1A too much after certain KD set ups
-I let a few easy ring outs go by using A+B after hitting 66B near the edge.
-I didn't mood change often enough and didn't open up the 'playbook' on mix ups enough.
-I tossed out some random counters when completely unsure of what Yoshi was doing, and paid for it.
-I failed to block Dragonfly K, A LOT. I blame Tekken.
-I got too conservative since Yoshi was all crazy and new.

Other than that. Please refrain from obvious and snide comments. It's two weeks into my Tira playing, and I am just looking for constructive criticism.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?p=r&user=soulcaliburcanada&page=1

I think there are like 9-10 matches in total.

Let 'er rip.

cha cha
 
My first Tira match vids 8/12/08

I like watching match videos, but it is hard to really judge when you look at them compared to when you were playing.

You already know what you didn't block and telling you that doesn't provide any Tira info.


I would presonally say to take more advantage of range when you can. It showed that running in was part of the mind game, but it just seemed to his advantage to be closer as a faster character with good mind games. You said yourself about how you can use 6B effectively and I only really saw it once.

I am personally more of a spacing player than rushdown, so that it my personal advice.
I might have suggest a back turned mixed up with 2K also, but B+K B was working very nicely for you by itself.

How many other transitions to BT does Tira have? I think 11K does it, but ehhh. I noticed you jumping a lot in the matches. It worked well when you jumped over them, but not so well when you landed in front of him.

Because both of you were aggressive players that focused more on mind games than pressure games, the SG was not much of factor, but you had the edge there from what I saw in the matches.

I would have suggested the use of 44K in GS as a punisher or interrupter, but since I also saw you post that on another thread, I am guessing not doing that was part of

"-I got too conservative since Yoshi was all crazy and new."

All in all, they were really good matches, your Tira is solid.
 
What's good with Tira?

Personally, I like JS a lot more than GS.
I love:
(JS)
6A,B (It's a pretty solid test attack, and if you see them move afterward, WS B can either CH for a nice toss or you can ring toss for another goodly bit of damage.) And you can even put the pause on it. It landing you in a crouch, you have maybe a second to sit there before you smack 'B' again or go into guarding the lows coming in at you.
After that, I really like

44B for the same reason. It's that last half of 6A, B without the horizontal.

I just look for any reason to get into my WS movies.

They get used to fearing you getting into a crouch at any moment and it can make 'em jittery, then you go into 8way moves, get mobile and change things up. Maybe it's just how i play. I dunno.

7_8_9 B is fun. They see you jump, they take a high swing, but if the timing is off enough, you'll knock 'em up with another rising ring of doom. I love it. Granted, this move is likely only going to fool scrubs that don't know Tira.

I dunno. I'll get in front of the game again after work and post summore, but to be honest, almost everything's been said.

4A:A is awesome.
GS
4B:B:B is awesome.
GS
2A+B is awesome.
GS
66K is awesome.

I dunno. That's me. Tira's growing to be one of my favorites.

But then I like Characters like Yoshi, and Yun, Voldo and Tira, cuz they're tricky.

/shrug
 
What's good with Tira?

cha cha:
Heartnana mentioned 11K in his first post, i was talking to him.

I never mentioned 66A had mixup potential, i was just saying that you may escape using the first hit, again that was directed to heartnana.

The stuff i mentioned about GS are valid reasons why i said what i said. Read the second half of my posts. I didn't think i needed to go into heavier detail...we're all still learning after all.
The reversal
44K punishability
stronger combos
Makes basic attacks safer
stronger spacing game
more damage overall eg GS BB does more than JS BB
Strong and more long range evasion moves like GS 44A
Better RO potential

Trying play around with 33K, you'll probably see the usefulness. It's one of her few SAFE, ANTISTEP mid moves with decent range. On CH RO a good deal. It fills a gap that no other move can imo. Saying its garbage with no actual factual data as to why... doesn't quite sit right with me ;)

I'm not going to try to convince you why I say she's good, that's subjective and i've jumped off the tier discussion horse. I will prefer to talk about her merits than her downfalls. It's more productive and people will try do more research in the games infancy.

BTW i mentioned a lot of her useful attacks already, you probably missed it.
The pokes i mentioned all useful and safe eg 6K, GS iWS A, 6B, GS 1B, 2B, GS 3kA, K, GS 2A (whiffs for some reason though), GS 6AAA. Power hits like GS 666B, GS 22A, GS 666A are also safe. It's a good list...i really don't want to go through them all. I'm sure a guy like you can work these moves if you try.
Moves like 3B (in either stance) are very useful and safe to 236:B, fast AAs will hit though. GS 66K is such an attack as well.

All her WS attacks are useful and safe (except WS B+K)
GS 22A, safe, TC, fast, 40 damage on hit, RO potential, can be used in juggles for relaunch.
GS 2A+B, strong pressure, force crouch on block, bounce on CH, combos. Doesn't take life

A+K is situational as you mentioned, use your discretion. I like GS so i use it when it's right. I don't care much for the autoGI in it really.



angerbunny:
I tried to like JS, but i just wasn't getting anywhere in it....damage output is pretty low (combos usually involve 22B). Pokes and all were pretty low. It's more unsafe than GS as well.
6A is good but damn it's unsafe. It's probably the only thing you mentioned in JS that you like lol. All the other stuff you mentioned are in GS. Her WS attacks are better in GS too haha. JS 66K is nice though, but GS 66K is nice as well.
 
My first Tira match vids 8/12/08

Thanks for the feedback. I think a lot of my problem was getting myself into this scenario: [randomly KD's by Yoshi, i then full roll so he could easily time Dragonfly on get up, resulting in my eating the low a bunch trying to get up and GI it.] Which forced me into a constant state of trying to catch up, rather than control.

My usual strat is to open strong, land something like 66B or 1A, do the follow up then change to GS to put the big damage threat in. But I got away from that, due to my lack of knowledge on what Yoshi could beat and where he was vunerable. I already fixed this aspect of my game though, by learning him fully last night.

Suiggestions I am still curious if anyone can lend input on:

-Blocking Yoshi's 3B, he is launcher punishable, but the best punish I can find is JS 3B into 44K and hope for a transition. Any other suggestions?

-When I hit 66B close to a ring out, I thought A+B would push them out and drop them down, but it appears to suck them back into the ring. What would be the best single hit to ring out someone with, what move prorates them furthest? I must have missed 5-6 RO opportunities due to A+B being engrained in my mind.

-Tira seems best at mid range, fishing for whiffs and CH's on people moving in. When stuck at close range, aside from what I used, what do you suggest I need to get back to the comfort zone? JS 4B? I haven't tested it much but it may be a key to safely get back into her comfortable range vs up close pressure characters. In GS she is a bit stonger with a better BB and 6A,AAA, but still lacks those moves that get her out of trouble or shift momentum, imo.

thanks

cha cha
 
My first Tira match vids 8/12/08

Wow, Neorussell plays very similar to me on wakeup. He seems to be much better in most other respects though. :D

Honestly I don't know what you can do against the DGF K_B mixup on wake. DGF B does even more damage if you commit to the 3B follow up, it's pretty nasty. The only thing that throws me off sometimes is when people get up attacking. Obviously that's a pretty dangerous thing to do and only works if Yoshi needs to dash in a bit before transitioning to DGF.

Anyway I have absolutely nothing to add about Tira, I just wanted to say thanks for the entertaining vids. Heh.
 
My first Tira match vids 8/12/08

I'm still learning Tira myself and being the novice I am I can't tell you much but I think in some situations you could have taken advantage of JS 4B a little more to create spacing. Only lengthy moves can really hit you but you do have to use the move in anticipation since it takes a few frames to execute.
 
My first Tira match vids 8/12/08

Yea, I only tried 4B JF once or twice, just not confident with the timing under pressure yet. I am working to implement it more though.

cha cha
 
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