Tira Patch Discussion

[D_Matt_Ma]

What is mediocre about GS?!

If Tira stayed in GS 100% of the time, would she be on par with Hilde, Algol, Setsuka, and Amy? The answer is clearly no. GS just makes her an average to above average character. She's not strong in GS. The characters just mentioned can deal more damage with better speed, range, and safety. And when you factor in that the moveset gears her towards JS more often than not, you are fighting uphill non-stop.

So the point was to either make GS the best character in the game or make both JS and GS better.

 

[Tirasoul]

If Tira stayed in GS 100% of the time,

first off all Tira can't stay 100% of the time in GS.but if she can she is very strong for every character in the game.personally i think that she has everything that a very good character needs.
i think the only disadvantage in GS are the moves that hurts Tira.
for example: imagine that you could do all the time 66B or 66A or 6Aaa without the lost of her health.
you can abuse the moves free,more pressure to your opponent and punish game without thinking of loosing health.not mention other moves like 44K,44B,44A,66K etc.and combined low moves and grabs you have mix game also.
if they want to fix Tira to a better way id say that they can live JS as it be (maybe B+K larger AutoGI window) and in GS (no Tira's health damage after her moves and not to stay in B+K too long in her animation.)

 

[hotnikkelz]

If Tira stayed in GS 100% of the time, would she be on par with Hilde, Algol, Setsuka, and Amy? The answer is clearly no. GS just makes her an average to above average character. She's not strong in GS. The characters just mentioned can deal more damage with better speed, range, and safety. And when you factor in that the moveset gears her towards JS more often than not, you are fighting uphill non-stop.

So the point was to either make GS the best character in the game or make both JS and GS better.

U're going from one extreme to the next. Noone said GS was god tier. YOU said it was MEDIOCRE. I just wanted to know why cuz that's VERY untrue. There's NOTHING mediocre about GS apart from the losing life issue.

Amy does LESS dmg than Tira does in GS btw and Algol is slower. Almost everything in GS is almost safe vs most characters too. What are you basing your info from btw? i'm quite confused.
Above average is fine enough hence i would like a more reliable way to get into GS. I don't need a top tier to win, i just need a capable character. GS makes her quite more capable.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

I'm basing it off the same reason Tira was weak in SC3. The way she is designed, she is not fast, nor does she do a lot of damage. She isn't all that tricky. Her frame data has gotten worse since SC3. She really isn't all that good.

GS makes up for this with a nice damage boost, only to take it away with self-damage moves.

That's my point. I never want to take away Tira's self damage. I love that concept. I just don't like how little frames she gets on her moves. My impression was always for Tira to be a mid-spead, low damage, high frames character.

The whole point I'm making is solely on GS. If GS is not top tier, then what hope does she have when you factor in her JS?

 

[hotnikkelz]

I'm basing it off the same reason Tira was weak in SC3. The way she is designed, she is not fast, nor does she do a lot of damage. She isn't all that tricky. Her frame data has gotten worse since SC3. She really isn't all that good.

GS makes up for this with a nice damage boost, only to take it away with self-damage moves.

That's my point. I never want to take away Tira's self damage. I love that concept. I just don't like how little frames she gets on her moves. My impression was always for Tira to be a mid-spead, low damage, high frames character.

The whole point I'm making is solely on GS. If GS is not top tier, then what hope does she have when you factor in her JS?

Everyone's frame data got worse. Tira actually has good data on MOST attacks on GS!! better than MANY opponents. She also has 3-4 bs -15 or lessLOW ATTACKS (1A, 11A, 1B, 1K@tip)), which means only a VERY few can punish them properly!!! You keep saying she's not fast but there are few fast characters, she's slightly above average speed. Her 44K is i12, AA is i15, K and 6B8 is i14, GS 6A is an i14 mid and she has a shitload of i16s. Her speed isn't the issue really, only her hitsun.

I personally don't think she's very strong either, no point disputing that, but my MAIN question remains...

WHAT IS MEDIOCRE ABOUT GS???!!! She is damn pretty close to top if she was GS only and no life drain.

 

[A_Bad_Idea]

Hey all, long time no see.

This is probably just a personal wish of mine based on my own playstyle with Tira, but I'd love to see her aGI's with wider aGI windows. I know that not every aGI in the game should be Asura-level, but with Tira's frames, it's only possible to make good guard traps out of GS B+K or GS 44A. Preferably, wider aGI windows on JS 2A+B, A+K and GS 44B (earlier window on this one) would really make my day.

 

[Shakugan]

Everyone's frame data got worse. Tira actually has good data on MOST attacks on GS!! better than MANY opponents. She also has 3-4 bs -15 or lessLOW ATTACKS (1A, 11A, 1B, 1K@tip)), which means only a VERY few can punish them properly!!! You keep saying she's not fast but there are few fast characters, she's slightly above average speed. Her 44K is i12, AA is i15, K and 6B8 is i14, GS 6A is an i14 mid and she has a shitload of i16s. Her speed isn't the issue really, only her hitsun.

I personally don't think she's very strong either, no point disputing that, but my MAIN question remains...

WHAT IS MEDIOCRE ABOUT GS???!!! She is damn pretty close to top if she was GS only and no life drain.

Shes still no where near the top if shes in GS the whole time minus the the life drain. Her lack of range and her bad frames make her where she is on the tier list IMO.

 

[mikosu]

Some corrections there Johnny mon. GS 6A is an i14 high. JS AA = i14, GS AA = i13. K = i13. Carry on people. This discussion is a good read. I'll chime in on this perma-GS business soon.

Oh yea. Welcome back ABI and Will!

 

[hotnikkelz]

Miko....GS 6A is HIGH???? are you sure it's not mhhh, i'm almost positive..can't check right now.

chaosghost...that was a bit vague i think
Tira lacks range?? 6B, 1A, GS 66K, GS 2A+B, 11K, JS 6A, JS 66A, GS 66A, 6bK...must i continue?
I repeat her frames in GS are decent, she is very safe, and coupled with the B+K autoGI she would be troublesome in permanent GS. I don't think that makes a top tier though.

 

[mikosu]

Miko....GS 6A is HIGH???? are you sure it's not mhhh, i'm almost positive..can't check right now

Oh I'm sure. It be HMHHH. Punishing stuff that ends in FC with it is impossible.

I usually like to use concrete examples and evidence to show that I'm not talking out of my butt but for now I'll be concise.

HP loss: As Tira is now this just isn't warranted.
Frames: On the moves you should be using regularly she's fine.
Damage: If there were no HP loss no one would be complaining about this. I wouldn't mind a boost of course.
Range: Not an issue.

Only issue I thought GS had was lack of a dependable ranged stepkiller. However iWS A fills that hole. GS 66A really needs to be horizontal. GS is a fine stance and should reward her better. If I had to choose between no HP loss and a damage boost I'd go for the former. No question.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Haha, well Mikosu, I prefer the latter. I would love to see Tira do some seriously sick damage in return for some life loss. That would REALLY make her different from any character.

 

[mikosu]

Haha, well Mikosu, I prefer the latter. I would love to see Tira do some seriously sick damage in return for some life loss. That would REALLY make her different from any character.

Lol knew you'd say that. With how she is now no HP loss would balance GS. But if they actually gave her more semi-accessible super dumb damage stuff I'd like to see how that'd work. I'm not picky.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Lol knew you'd say that. With how she is now no HP loss would balance GS. But if they actually gave her more semi-accessible super dumb damage stuff I'd like to see how that'd work. I'm not picky.

Of course... I'm not talking stupid Yoshimitsu suicide antics. All BF moves dealing more damage would work wonders in my opinion, even if it ends up costing Tira more life to do it! As long as the trade is better than 1:1 in Tira's favor, more damage is better. Of course... gaining a little more life after switching back would be nice too.

One thing I would like is if you can FINISH taunt while in GS, you gain back a LOT of life. Naturally, I am pushing for Taunts to switch 100% of the time.

 

[Radar]

She should get an entirely new animation for JS B+K. It should work like the GS one, just pull it off successfully, and watch and animation of Tira raping the opponent's face.

 

[Shakugan]

Miko....GS 6A is HIGH???? are you sure it's not mhhh, i'm almost positive..can't check right now.

chaosghost...that was a bit vague i think
Tira lacks range?? 6B, 1A, GS 66K, GS 2A+B, 11K, JS 6A, JS 66A, GS 66A, 6bK...must i continue?
I repeat her frames in GS are decent, she is very safe, and coupled with the B+K autoGI she would be troublesome in permanent GS. I don't think that makes a top tier though.

True True True i should have explained a lil more my fault but her match-ups in this game are utter death.
Everytime i play Anyone of equal skill who use any of these Characters Astra,Cassie,Setsuka,Amy,Lizardman,Cervy,Kilik,Ivy,Nightmare,Voldo,Siegfried,Taki, its all ways a up hill battle dont get me wrong Tira is beast but those match-ups make everything hard.

If need be ill explain more in detail later

 

[mikosu]

I just had the most awesome thought. What if they made JS do the damage GS does now and the new GS do even more damage than that? OMG would she be feared. I think I'm droolin'.....

 

[Nukleurfire]

I would give up GS to have her SC3 1P outfit back.

 

[Freaky]

She should have a 3rd stance that only lasts for a short time and is triggered by an autoGI in GS. It would be the same as GS with the addition of some sweet unblockables. She would gradually lose life but everything would do huge damage and be safer. Afterwords, she would go into JS. I win.

 

[that_jablez_guy]

Im sure this has been posted already, and this may sound contradictory, but I dont mind Tira's self HP loss, I do mind the fact that she can actually KILL herself once her life bar reaches 1%.

she should able to damage her self as is all the way up until her last ounce of life... make ur opponent work for a win. And once i get to her 1% if i kno she isnt gonna commit suicide, Im gonna abuse ALL of Gloomy's BF attacks, Guard Break, etc...

 

[arnboku]

Namco has to fix JS 44B/GS 11_77B.
It would become really usefull with a guardbreak having actually GB properties. Or instead of making it super safe make it catch all tech.

Both options together would be too good I think :-)