Kilik Matchups/General Chat Topic

arnboku said:
Why is Tira such a bad match-up for Kilik?
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This may just be the tira I play. The tira I usually fight tends to use moves that cause her to shift to the side slightly. Personally I have trouble reading these moves but that may just be because I'm not used to fighting her. However i've found that :2::A: corrects the problem.
 
docvizzo said:
Asura beats 80% of his Movelist, honestly. All you need against every teleport or whatever. Im not sure which one of the teleports you mean, but that doesnt matter, since it really counters everything.
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Thanks for the tips on fighting cervs guys. I've starting working on Asuna and can now GI him out of all of his teleport attacks ^_^
 
As both an Amy player and Kilik player, I say don't spam A+B against Amy (because good amy players will have deadly wake ups and too many to pick from depending on what you do), use space as an option and keep her at bay. She then only has a few moves left to try to play the range game (mainly 236 A to fly at you). Other than that, it's all up to out fooling an Amy player. Unless you're a very seasoned pro who can pull of Asura's Dance at the right time, know the best moves to auto-sidestep and even can pull of FOTD and FOTP easily, the best strategy is to keep Amy as far away as possible. Easier said than done at times.
 
Gegliosch said:
I'd be interested in this for other characters as well, could you post a link pls?
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match_up.jpg
 
Something I found is that Kilik's command throws, if done quickly enough that purple shows for a tiny bit they're are as fast as if you do it with the fastest input (In other words, no purple shows at all). If Kilik says anything though, then you've done it too slow.

Edit: Hayate, is the french matchup chart updated often? I'm just curious, since there's still things being discovered in this game (Nothing really big, though).
 
Dullyanna said:
Edit: Hayate, is the french matchup chart updated often? I'm just curious, since there's still things being discovered in this game (Nothing really big, though).
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Every Month, this is for march 2009.

I'am pretty sure there is a lot's wrong match-up here, it's a hard way to go.
 
How do people start getting comfortable with pulling off FOTD in a match. I've forced myself to learn it but I don't seem to use it and when I do go for it it's way to obvious. How have people worked it into their game? And what are good ways to set it up?
 
XDaiKonX said:
Poor rock doesnt have one good matchup.
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Which definitely isn't true considering he nullifies Lizzy Crawl hardcore with crouch grabs/6B+K, and Lizardman dosen't punish Rock very hard at all. There's no way lizardman has 'advantage' in that matchup. 5:5 at best.

And he has waaay too many 3:7s. Those (and higher) are reserved for when a character has something very specific that nullifies a large part of that entire character's useful movelist, which, given the quantity of moves in calibur games, is just mostly unheard of. Not using .5s like the Americans/Japanese did for SC2 confuses me. Yoda would have lots of 3:7s and 2:8s. Not Rock.

It's rare that matchups in calibur games aren't 5:5. Thusly, I'm /very/ skeptical of their tier list thus far. :p

Uh, sorry for derailing, lol

D-man: just practice the input until it's second nature. FOTD grabs > Kilik normal grabs in most situations since they do way more damage and the A break grab leads to like 35% + hilde-esque ringout.
 
DmanXIIX said:
How do people start getting comfortable with pulling off FOTD in a match. I've forced myself to learn it but I don't seem to use it and when I do go for it it's way to obvious. How have people worked it into their game? And what are good ways to set it up?
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I started utilizing it at the start of SC3 when people were still thinking it was as useless as it was in SC2.
So I had no problem learning how to get the muscle memory down because people were eating it left and center for quite a bit. By the time I had to pull it out of my ass to catch people off guard, I could do it pretty easily. You'll get better with the input as you repeat it in training mode.. sort of like practicing a kata with your joystick instead of your body.

In terms of getting it out in a match and landing it, You'll probably want to get more comfortable with doing the following.

A. MO mixups
B. Entering MO from FC

For the earlier, this is more of a fail-safe precaution more than anything else.
MO A for the mixup, MO B as an abare and MO K/2_8B+K to reset your situation.
In order for them to work though, you need to work on making sure you can do FOTD out of MO.. Or rather, Delayed FOTD. Without delayed FOTD there really isn't enough threat to keep the opponent from standing there and waiting. You want them to know you can do it.. Then MO A and MO FOTD becomes a very very strong mixup. Your scariest mix up up close.

Entering MO from FC is probably the most useful application for FOTD. Or any throw for that matter simply because people fear WS B. When you want to throw out a mixup, you want to do it when somebody is passive.
You don't want them to be ready to abare you on reaction, or have an option up your sleeve that kills off your mixup. However, when they ARE anticipating your mixup and getting ready to block or snuff it. Having an option that messes up their anticipation will help you land your mixup.

For example, back in the day (and in some cases, in SC4) people liked to use simple A/B/K cancels, SCC and a Kilik classic, Legend Rush, to cover up a mixup and mess up with an opponent's anticipation. (Hell, I even tried doing Taunt cancels.. which worked fairly well) In SC4, Kilik has another option. Ducking.

Simply because people fear WS B, ducking gives the immediate impression that you're going to do it.. I mean come on, the move hits SO easily it doesn't hurt to spam it all day long. So when you have an opponent thinking "WS B" everytime you duck. You can go for more painful things.

Like a standard throw. And when you can say throw. You can say FOTD.

So when you combine arguably Kilik's scariest mid attack (WS B) with one of the best throws in the game (FOTD) you've got a killer mid/throw mixup. All you need to do is figure out how to do 236A+G from a crouching position.

Once you've managed to pull that off.. Your mixup can be further evolved into.. WS B and MO.
And considering MO has the MO K and MO 2_8B+K options to reset your position and your mixup. The possibilities off ducking in front of an opponent just spirals out of sight.

Nightstar_Ace said:
As both an Amy player and Kilik player, I say don't spam A+B against Amy (because good amy players will have deadly wake ups and too many to pick from depending on what you do), use space as an option and keep her at bay. She then only has a few moves left to try to play the range game (mainly 236 A to fly at you). Other than that, it's all up to out fooling an Amy player. Unless you're a very seasoned pro who can pull of Asura's Dance at the right time, know the best moves to auto-sidestep and even can pull of FOTD and FOTP easily, the best strategy is to keep Amy as far away as possible. Easier said than done at times.
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It really depends on the Amy player and the situation.
The guy I used to play a lot (TaXi) loved spamming B+K because it was pretty much as failsafe as you can get when dealing with Asura, 66B and WS B.
I needed something REALLY meaty to kill it out. Without allowing B+K,B to snuff me out.
A+B was that answer.
 
ok so i finally can do Fotd consistently now and i have to say its the shit. my only problem i'm having now is finding a good time to actually use it. i usually use it after 236 A, 46 B then Fotd or after 2A. occasionally i throw it out there instead of a regular throw but i really want to try to work it into my game more regularly. any suggestions on any other setups to get it off???

lol guess i should of read the post above hehe. also any suggestions on Guard Break Asura? i can't do this move for the life of me.
 
ShenOu said:
I started utilizing it at the start of SC3 when people were still thinking it was as useless as it was in SC2.
So I had no problem learning how to get the muscle memory down because people were eating it left and center for quite a bit. By the time I had to pull it out of my ass to catch people off guard, I could do it pretty easily. You'll get better with the input as you repeat it in training mode.. sort of like practicing a kata with your joystick instead of your body.

In terms of getting it out in a match and landing it, You'll probably want to get more comfortable with doing the following.

A. MO mixups
B. Entering MO from FC

For the earlier, this is more of a fail-safe precaution more than anything else.
MO A for the mixup, MO B as an abare and MO K/2_8B+K to reset your situation.
In order for them to work though, you need to work on making sure you can do FOTD out of MO.. Or rather, Delayed FOTD. Without delayed FOTD there really isn't enough threat to keep the opponent from standing there and waiting. You want them to know you can do it.. Then MO A and MO FOTD becomes a very very strong mixup. Your scariest mix up up close.

Entering MO from FC is probably the most useful application for FOTD. Or any throw for that matter simply because people fear WS B. When you want to throw out a mixup, you want to do it when somebody is passive.
You don't want them to be ready to abare you on reaction, or have an option up your sleeve that kills off your mixup. However, when they ARE anticipating your mixup and getting ready to block or snuff it. Having an option that messes up their anticipation will help you land your mixup.

For example, back in the day (and in some cases, in SC4) people liked to use simple A/B/K cancels, SCC and a Kilik classic, Legend Rush, to cover up a mixup and mess up with an opponent's anticipation. (Hell, I even tried doing Taunt cancels.. which worked fairly well) In SC4, Kilik has another option. Ducking.

Simply because people fear WS B, ducking gives the immediate impression that you're going to do it.. I mean come on, the move hits SO easily it doesn't hurt to spam it all day long. So when you have an opponent thinking "WS B" everytime you duck. You can go for more painful things.

Like a standard throw. And when you can say throw. You can say FOTD.

So when you combine arguably Kilik's scariest mid attack (WS B) with one of the best throws in the game (FOTD) you've got a killer mid/throw mixup. All you need to do is figure out how to do 236A+G from a crouching position.

Once you've managed to pull that off.. Your mixup can be further evolved into.. WS B and MO.
And considering MO has the MO K and MO 2_8B+K options to reset your position and your mixup. The possibilities off ducking in front of an opponent just spirals out of sight.
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Exellent Post.

In order to precise, the best way to go into FC, and finish in range of FOTD is 2A.

In close fighting, attacking with 2A will generally cause hit, then you finish in front of your ennemy with your mixup WS B and FOTD.

The good point here, if you go into MO your are protected versus fast AA also, so it's important to know how to do dFOTD.

When the start BB'ing/fast Mid K, don't forgot BP or just spam WS K / 66B / 6AAA.
 
From crouched advantage, other moves to consider also would be:

WR A+B -> [Asura tech trap]
46B
22*B

These usually help when the typicals aren't working out so well because aGI/kick/etc answers.
 
Are there any good anti Siegfried tips for Kilik? It's weird because he's one of my characters so I suppose I should know him well but I get torched by his stance mix ups. Even outside of that I just have a hard time dealing with him. So everything and anything people know would be much appreciated.
 
DmanXIIX said:
Are there any good anti Siegfried tips for Kilik? It's weird because he's one of my characters so I suppose I should know him well but I get torched by his stance mix ups. Even outside of that I just have a hard time dealing with him. So everything and anything people know would be much appreciated.
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If you're getting screwed by a 50/50 mixup, you're probably not trying to guess the mixup at all.
Don't be deceived by whiners that "guessing" a mixup is luck and not skill.
The basis of ANY form of head to head competition is a mixup, if you don't have the confidence to block a move while risking eating another, you'll never be able to play any type of game competitively.

If you're having trouble with other aspects such as range/specific move etc. We can help you with that.
But if you ask us how to guess between a mid and a low.. your answer would be.

Guess.

Hayate: Thanks for the compliment.
As an add-on to what you said about 2A.. I feel that sometimes you will play with people who are confident with blocking 2A on reaction.. so they don't try and guess it, which is quite common IMO. So i like to use 2K as well. Its really good on counter hit, and Kilik's 2K and 22K has a sort of "advance and retreat" animation. So that + WS B's awkward side thrusting motion makes for some really weird and useful evasion.
 
The best way to counter a reaction blocking of 2A (or 1_3A+B) is to do much more safe 4A+B, it will disuade decently.

If an opponnent duck a lot versus Kilik's move, that mean you don't use enough of his middle. I know that his mid is bad, but just going for 66K often, 6B+K (is now safe), or a classical 2B (setup for WS B), is always a good option.

Also 22A and A+K, but less disuading.

66B is not a good mid to disuade ducking.

Btw spamming 2K is always usefull, especially if you start to confirm the CH, you have either FC 3B and 66B non interuptable.
 
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