Siegfried has triple grounder - Suck it Nightmare ^^

S

Synraii

[14] Master
I didn't see a thread for this, so I'm not sure how many people know, but Siegfried's A+K is a lot more versatile than the move list would imply.
Moves in his spinning and phantom combos can be skipped entirely by slide inputting them.
You can feint into a nice double grounder, go straight to chief, triple grounder (Screw Nightmare) etc.
Amongst good siegfried players, I find i'm a minority to actually use these moves, SO...
Was everybody already aware of this and if so, how do you personally employ them?
 
I use a+kA strings all the time I can. Its easier to do with 22_88kA than with a+kA, ka2A (grounder low) give +6 or 8 on hit, and kA2A (high~low) is safe on block.
 
Yes, a+ka2A is +8 on hit, being -15 on grd with fear advantage makes it safe enough to throw out even though it's super slow, and the fake is a sign for people to block low, but at least you don't have to bG fake then attack like alot of good players do, has it built in... A+Ka2AA is recommended, unlike it's straightup version, A+K catches step alright catching victims to guess Sig's next move... A+K~K (needs delay), knocks opponents down on CH of the last hit only, an A+KK NCC won't knock down so a max delay on the kick fakes the opponent into attacking and letting you get that KND, which can W! or RO depending on position in the stage, remember that A+K~K is negative on hit at -2 and punishable on grd at -16, wish that wasn't true because Sig needs this option badly...
A+KA, a NC, is what you're after because once the H slice is blocked Sig obtains his mixup game between holding A and going into SCH (A+K[A]), or using A+KA2A*A+KA2AA for a safe low sweep to continue pressure with the final low being used to hit people attacking straight after they block the first low, or even A+KAA!!! Why A+KAA??? An opponent thinking they can jump A+KA2A would be correct, but when they do A+KAA can prevent and later deter them from attempting that again... A+KAAB (last 2 hits) is a midair combo for OK damage on anyone trying to jump A+KA2A, A+KAA can also be held into SSH for SCD on wakeup thanks to SSH B... A+KAA is also safe and +4 on hit with fear advantage for the final B attack of the string (which I think can also be delayed)...
When the opponent is aware of A+K~K and the A+KA mixups they tend to stop guessing when to interrupt, clam-up, and stand there and try to block your mixup (which is a safe bet)... This would be the time to employ A+Ka2A*A+Ka2AA, the high kick starts the mixup, Sig fakes the high or the kick followup and goes into a low sweep, in this version the last two hits are a NC so following through is the best thing to do on hit for this mixup, on grd stop at the first low... If you thought they guarded but actually got hit (you know? if you guessed wrong or something) Sig is at +8 with fear advantage to boot, which means you can execute another A+K string, A+K will come out at i14 this time at the fastest... After the two lows of A+Ka2AA combo, the opponent gets knocked down, now I don't followup with 3B, I use the advantage of the KND to rush in for either a+ka2A or another A+K string on wakeup, if a+ka2A hits them while they try to roll away, the second low sweep is a grounded combo, setting up for another rushdown wakeup...
Another strategy I've been trying to employ is a+kA, a;g;A and A+K, a;g;A... With the first attacks connecting, the opponent is within range and Sig has mass fear and frame advantage for a legitamate a;g;A, after a+kA connects a;g;A is i8 at the fastest... a;g;A being +2 on grd leaves Sig with a couple followups, my favorite being an a+kA followup with that coming out at i13 with the fastest input after a;g;A is blocked, and if that connects I can follow through with the low sweep for a NC, go into stance with a+k[A], or throw out another i8 a;g;A if I'm feeling lucky...
Now back to Sig's a+ka2A, being +8 on hit lets Sig pressure with an A+K string (coming out at i14 now) or an a;g;A at i10, and lastly an i6 b6 * i11 3A (if they block low)... With A+K being i22 I like using it when I have enough advantage or using it on wakeup, because it's a mid~slow speed move to begin with... After my a+kA2A connects (somehow), I usually followup with b6 (now at i14) if they try to interrupt or if the opponent blcks low in fear of the second low sweep... If the opponent tries to attack straight after they block my a+kA2A, yes, I ussually grd, but if it becomes a habbit for them I followup with the second low sweep and start a rushdown mixup if that connects... Also if a+kA2A connects (which is a NC btw) Sig can followup with another a+kA mixup (now at i13 with the fastest input)...
SCH is a big part of Sig's a+k and A+K mixup game with it being the earliest and fastest stance Sig can enter in each string with a+k[A] or A+K[A]... First off A+K[A], on grd SCH K (fastest option) is i13, and often interrupts opponents or hits if they block low, A+K[A] keeps them close enough for SCH K to work... If A+K[A] connects, either by them being hit by the second hit or by the attack naturally combo'ing, SCH B is the safest followup at i10 and -6 on grd, SCH B delivers good SCD and good wakes on hit... After a+k[A] now, on grd SCH K is i15, on hit SCH K*KK is a NC and SCH A*[A] is also a NC... On hit after a+k[A] Sig gets mass advantage, SCH B is at i2 and SCH {B} (MAX charge) is at i27, if you get a+k[A] mixup between SCH B and SCH (MAX), Sig can stop the charge at anytime and SCH (1/2 charge) is -4 on grd and does more SCD than usual, the 1/2 charged version also leads into great tech traps like 1B... After SCH K gets blocked Sig only has fear advantage, with another SCH K being i16 I like to exit after the first K is guarded with SCH KK for a quick get away... If SCH K connects, them SCH KK is an obvious NC leaving Sig at +2 with an i14 b6, an i11 K or more a+kA mixups... But if SCH K hits a crouched opponent who knows about the High kick followup from SCH KK then SCH KK will not combo, them first hit leaves them in FC'd position and the second kick goes over their head, punishment is usally in the form of a WR B of sorts so watch out... Now if SCH K connects SCH B is at i12 and provides a safe escape and again good SCD, this is my go to route... People say SCH is steppable, I agree to some extent, SCH A can be used as a deterent against really "steppy" opponents, after SCH K gets blcoked SCH A is at i18, on hit i7, watch for steppers...
SSH is another stance familiar with the A+K strings and mixups, slower than SCH and later in the strings, achieved by a+kA[A] and A+KA[A]... You will mostly find yourself not going into SSH, but what I've found to work is punishing... If Sig can effectively punish with a+kA[A] you can go into SSH if you please, but in this matter SCH is better... Honestly this is range dependant in choice, if a+kA punishes close, go into SCH for natural combos and stuff, but at mid to far range a+kA[A] is a nice option... With A+KA[A] you will mostly find yourself in stance by accident, by a random choice to stay fresh, or if the last hit catches a jumping opponent... With a+kA[A] it's a more legitemate approach being faster, a shorter string, and punishment friendly... After a+kA[A] connects successfully, SSH A is i9 catching steppers and people off guard, SSH B is i16 for SCD and low blockers who anticipate SSH A... If your a+kA[A] gets guarded, SSH K is the fastest followup at i15 so practice your punishment... HHH is pretty bad too I guess... If SSH A connects you can transition into SRSH for an unsafe mixup, Sig can follow through with SSH AA, or you can stop and do what I like to do and go for a+kA strings which come out at normal speed (i15 fastest) but due to the second low Sig has fear advantage... b6 is also a good followup after SSH A connects, safe, Mid, and at i16... If SSH A gets guarded either always follow through with the second low or stop at the first and guard yourself, SSH A and AA are both -17 on grd, could spell doom against a quick-minded Setsuka... In SSH B's case, SCD is your friend, if it hits Sig gets his rushdown wakeup and SBH K is a tech trap, if it gets blocked Sig is at -14 at the closest range, I consider this move safe... If you decide to transition into SBH, SBH K is i16 on grd, so most FC 2A will interrupt, giving the opponent +4 or +8 (on CH) and some chip damage usually isn't a good idea but it really depends on who you're fighting... If a+kA[A] connects then SSH K is i2, most auto-repel attacks will not work, on hit SSH K is a KND with OK wakeup, but on CH Sig gets his signature combo with a SBH tech trap... Combo is CH SSH K, a+k[A], SCH k, SBH B...
Well, thats about it, if you read all this then thanks for your time and I hope you learned some stuff, mainly I hope you learned how to use A+K!!!

A+K strings ARE Seigfried!!!
 
ZOMBIEBEAR666 said:
Yes, a+ka2A is +8 on hit, being -15 on grd with fear advantage makes it safe enough to throw out even though it's super slow, and the fake is a sign for people to block low, but at least you don't have to bG fake then attack like alot of good players do, has it built in... A+Ka2AA is recommended, unlike it's straightup version, A+K catches step alright catching victims to guess Sig's next move... A+K~K (needs delay), knocks opponents down on CH of the last hit only, an A+KK NCC won't knock down so a max delay on the kick fakes the opponent into attacking and letting you get that KND, which can W! or RO depending on position in the stage, remember that A+K~K is negative on hit at -2 and punishable on grd at -16, wish that wasn't true because Sig needs this option badly... A+KA, a NC, is what you're after because once the H slice is blocked Sig obtains his mixup game between holding A and going into SCH (A+K[A]), or using A+KA2A*A+KA2AA for a safe low sweep to continue pressure with the final low being used to hit people attacking straight after they block the first low, or even A+KAA!!! Why A+KAA??? An opponent thinking they can jump A+KA2A would be correct, but when they do A+KAA can prevent and later deter them from attempting that again... A+KAAB (last 2 hits) is a midair combo for OK damage on anyone trying to jump A+KA2A, A+KAA can also be held into SSH for SCD on wakeup thanks to SSH B... A+KAA is also safe and +4 on hit with fear advantage for the final B attack of the string (which I think can also be delayed)... When the opponent is aware of A+K~K and the A+KA mixups they tend to stop guessing when to interrupt, clam-up, and stand there and try to block your mixup (which is a safe bet)... This would be the time to employ A+Ka2A*A+Ka2AA, the high kick starts the mixup, Sig fakes the high or the kick followup and goes into a low sweep, in this version the last two hits are a NC so following through is the best thing to do on hit for this mixup, on grd stop at the first low... If you thought they guarded but actually got hit (you know? if you guessed wrong or something) Sig is at +8 with fear advantage to boot, which means you can execute another A+K string, A+K will come out at i14 this time at the fastest... After the two lows of A+Ka2AA combo, the opponent gets knocked down, now I don't followup with 3B, I use the advantage of the KND to rush in for either a+ka2A or another A+K string on wakeup, if a+ka2A hits them while they try to roll away, the second low seep is a grounded combo, setting up for another rushdown wakeup... Another strategy I've been trying to employ is a+kA, a:G:A and A+K, a:G:A... With the first attacks connecting, the opponent is within range and Sig has mass fear and frame advantage for a legitamate a:G:A, after a+kA connects a:G:A is i8 at the fastest... a:G:A being +2 on grd leaves Sig with a couple followups, my favorite being an a+kA followup with that coming out at i13 with the fastest input after a:G:A is blocked, and if that connects I can follow through with the low sweep for a NC, go into stance with a+k[A], or throw out another i8 a:G:A if I'm feeling lucky... Now back to Sig's a+ka2A, being +8 on hit lets Sig pressure with an A+K string (coming out at i14 now) or an a:G:A at i10, and lastly an i6 b6 * i11 3A (if they block low)... With A+K being i22 I like using it when I have enough advantage or using it on wakeup, because it's a mid~slow speed move to begin with... After my a+kA2A connects (somehow), I usually followup with b6 (now at i14) if they try to interrupt or if the opponent blcks low in fear of the second low sweep... If the opponent tries to attack straight after they block my a+kA2A, yes, I ussually grd, but if it becomes a habbit for them I followup with the second low sweep and start a rushdown mixup if that connects... Also if a+kA2A connects (which is a NC btw) Sig can followup with another a+kA mixup (now at i13 with the fastest input)... SCH is a big part of Sig's a+k and A+K mixup game with it being the earliest and fastest stance Sig can enter in each string with a+k[A] or A+K[A]... First off A+K[A], on grd SCH K (fastest option) is i13, and often interrupts opponents or hits if they block low, A+K[A] keeps them close enough for SCH K to work... If A+K[A] connects, either by them being hit by the second hit or by the attack naturally combo'ing, SCH B is the safest followup at i10 and -6 on grd, SCH B delivers good SCD and good wakes on hit... After a+k[A] now, on grd SCH K is i15, on hit SCH K*KK is a NC and SCH A*[A] is also a NC... On hit after a+k[A] Sig gets mass advantage, SCH B is at i2 and SCH (MAX charge) is at i27, if you get a+k[A] mixup between SCH B and SCH (MAX), Sig can stop the charge at anytime and SCH (1/2 charge) is -4 on grd and does more SCD than usual, the 1/2 charged version also leads into great tech traps like 1B... After SCH K gets blocked Sig only has fear advantage, with another SCH K being i16 I like to exit after the first K is guarded with SCH KK for a quick get away... If SCH K connects, them SCH KK is an obvious NC leaving Sig at +2 with an i14 b6, an i11 K or more a+kA mixups... But if SCH K hits a crouched opponent who knows about the High kick followup from SCH KK then SCH KK will not combo, them first hit leaves them in FC'd position and the second kick goes over their head, punishment is usally in the form of a WR B of sorts so watch out... Now if SCH K connects SCH B is at i12 and provides a safe escape and again good SCD, this is my go to route... People say SCH is steppable, I agree to some extent, SCH A can be used as a deterent against really "steppy" opponents, after SCH K gets blcoked SCH A is at i18, on hit i7, watch for steppers... SSH is another stance familiar with the A+K strings and mixups, slower than SCH and later in the strings, achieved by a+kA[A] and A+KA[A]... You will mostly find yourself not going into SSH, but what I've found to work is punishing... If Sig can effectively punish with a+kA[A] you can go into SSH if you please, but in this matter SCH is better... Honestly this is range dependant in choice, if a+kA punishes close, go into SCH for natural combos and stuff, but at mid to far range a+kA[A] is a nice option... With A+KA[A] you will mostly find yourself in stance by accident, by a random choice to stay fresh, or if the last hit catches a jumping opponent... With a+kA[A] it's a more legitemate approach being faster, a shorter string, and punishment friendly... After a+kA[A] connects successfully, SSH A is i9 catching steppers and people off guard, SSH B is i16 for SCD and low blockers who anticipate SSH A... If your a+kA[A] gets guarded, SSH K is the fastest followup at i15 so practice your punishment... HHH is pretty bad too I guess... If SSH A connects you can transition into SRSH for an unsafe mixup, Sig can follow through with SSH AA, or you can stop and do what I like to do and go for a+kA strings which come out at normal speed (i15 fastest) but due to the second low Sig has fear advantage... b6 is also a good followup after SSH A connects, safe, Mid, and at i16... If SSH A gets guarded either always follow through with the second low or stop at the first and guard yourself, SSH A and AA are both -17 on grd, could spell doom against a quick-minded Setsuka... In SSH B's case, SCD is your friend, if it hits Sig gets his rushdown wakeup and SBH K is a tech trap, if it gets blocked Sig is at -14 at the closest range, I consider this move safe... If you decide to transition into SBH, SBH K is i16 on grd, so most FC 2A will interrupt, giving the opponent +4 or +8 (on CH) and some chip damage usually isn't a good idea but it really depends on who you're fighting... If a+kA[A] connects then SSH K is i2, most auto-repel attacks will not work, on hit SSH K is a KND with OK wakeup, but on CH Sig gets his signature combo with a SBH tech trap... Combo is CH SSH K, a+k[A], SCH k, SBH B... Well, thats about it, if you read all this then thanks for your time and I hope you learned some stuff, mainly I hope you learned to use A+K!!!

A+K strings ARE Seigfried!!!
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TL;DR .

just marry me already .
 
ZOMBIEBEAR666 said:
Yes, a+ka2A is +8 on hit, being -15 on grd with fear advantage makes it safe enough to throw out even though it's super slow, and the fake is a sign for people to block low, but at least you don't have to bG fake then attack like alot of good players do, has it built in... A+Ka2AA is recommended, unlike it's straightup version, A+K catches step alright catching victims to guess Sig's next move... A+K~K (needs delay), knocks opponents down on CH of the last hit only, an A+KK NCC won't knock down so a max delay on the kick fakes the opponent into attacking and letting you get that KND, which can W! or RO depending on position in the stage, remember that A+K~K is negative on hit at -2 and punishable on grd at -16, wish that wasn't true because Sig needs this option badly... A+KA, a NC, is what you're after because once the H slice is blocked Sig obtains his mixup game between holding A and going into SCH (A+K[A]), or using A+KA2A*A+KA2AA for a safe low sweep to continue pressure with the final low being used to hit people attacking straight after they block the first low, or even A+KAA!!! Why A+KAA??? An opponent thinking they can jump A+KA2A would be correct, but when they do A+KAA can prevent and later deter them from attempting that again... A+KAAB (last 2 hits) is a midair combo for OK damage on anyone trying to jump A+KA2A, A+KAA can also be held into SSH for SCD on wakeup thanks to SSH B... A+KAA is also safe and +4 on hit with fear advantage for the final B attack of the string (which I think can also be delayed)... When the opponent is aware of A+K~K and the A+KA mixups they tend to stop guessing when to interrupt, clam-up, and stand there and try to block your mixup (which is a safe bet)... This would be the time to employ A+Ka2A*A+Ka2AA, the high kick starts the mixup, Sig fakes the high or the kick followup and goes into a low sweep, in this version the last two hits are a NC so following through is the best thing to do on hit for this mixup, on grd stop at the first low... If you thought they guarded but actually got hit (you know? if you guessed wrong or something) Sig is at +8 with fear advantage to boot, which means you can execute another A+K string, A+K will come out at i14 this time at the fastest... After the two lows of A+Ka2AA combo, the opponent gets knocked down, now I don't followup with 3B, I use the advantage of the KND to rush in for either a+ka2A or another A+K string on wakeup, if a+ka2A hits them while they try to roll away, the second low seep is a grounded combo, setting up for another rushdown wakeup... Another strategy I've been trying to employ is a+kA, a:G:A and A+K, a:G:A... With the first attacks connecting, the opponent is within range and Sig has mass fear and frame advantage for a legitamate a:G:A, after a+kA connects a:G:A is i8 at the fastest... a:G:A being +2 on grd leaves Sig with a couple followups, my favorite being an a+kA followup with that coming out at i13 with the fastest input after a:G:A is blocked, and if that connects I can follow through with the low sweep for a NC, go into stance with a+k[A], or throw out another i8 a:G:A if I'm feeling lucky... Now back to Sig's a+ka2A, being +8 on hit lets Sig pressure with an A+K string (coming out at i14 now) or an a:G:A at i10, and lastly an i6 b6 * i11 3A (if they block low)... With A+K being i22 I like using it when I have enough advantage or using it on wakeup, because it's a mid~slow speed move to begin with... After my a+kA2A connects (somehow), I usually followup with b6 (now at i14) if they try to interrupt or if the opponent blcks low in fear of the second low sweep... If the opponent tries to attack straight after they block my a+kA2A, yes, I ussually grd, but if it becomes a habbit for them I followup with the second low sweep and start a rushdown mixup if that connects... Also if a+kA2A connects (which is a NC btw) Sig can followup with another a+kA mixup (now at i13 with the fastest input)... SCH is a big part of Sig's a+k and A+K mixup game with it being the earliest and fastest stance Sig can enter in each string with a+k[A] or A+K[A]... First off A+K[A], on grd SCH K (fastest option) is i13, and often interrupts opponents or hits if they block low, A+K[A] keeps them close enough for SCH K to work... If A+K[A] connects, either by them being hit by the second hit or by the attack naturally combo'ing, SCH B is the safest followup at i10 and -6 on grd, SCH B delivers good SCD and good wakes on hit... After a+k[A] now, on grd SCH K is i15, on hit SCH K*KK is a NC and SCH A*[A] is also a NC... On hit after a+k[A] Sig gets mass advantage, SCH B is at i2 and SCH (MAX charge) is at i27, if you get a+k[A] mixup between SCH B and SCH (MAX), Sig can stop the charge at anytime and SCH (1/2 charge) is -4 on grd and does more SCD than usual, the 1/2 charged version also leads into great tech traps like 1B... After SCH K gets blocked Sig only has fear advantage, with another SCH K being i16 I like to exit after the first K is guarded with SCH KK for a quick get away... If SCH K connects, them SCH KK is an obvious NC leaving Sig at +2 with an i14 b6, an i11 K or more a+kA mixups... But if SCH K hits a crouched opponent who knows about the High kick followup from SCH KK then SCH KK will not combo, them first hit leaves them in FC'd position and the second kick goes over their head, punishment is usally in the form of a WR B of sorts so watch out... Now if SCH K connects SCH B is at i12 and provides a safe escape and again good SCD, this is my go to route... People say SCH is steppable, I agree to some extent, SCH A can be used as a deterent against really "steppy" opponents, after SCH K gets blcoked SCH A is at i18, on hit i7, watch for steppers... SSH is another stance familiar with the A+K strings and mixups, slower than SCH and later in the strings, achieved by a+kA[A] and A+KA[A]... You will mostly find yourself not going into SSH, but what I've found to work is punishing... If Sig can effectively punish with a+kA[A] you can go into SSH if you please, but in this matter SCH is better... Honestly this is range dependant in choice, if a+kA punishes close, go into SCH for natural combos and stuff, but at mid to far range a+kA[A] is a nice option... With A+KA[A] you will mostly find yourself in stance by accident, by a random choice to stay fresh, or if the last hit catches a jumping opponent... With a+kA[A] it's a more legitemate approach being faster, a shorter string, and punishment friendly... After a+kA[A] connects successfully, SSH A is i9 catching steppers and people off guard, SSH B is i16 for SCD and low blockers who anticipate SSH A... If your a+kA[A] gets guarded, SSH K is the fastest followup at i15 so practice your punishment... HHH is pretty bad too I guess... If SSH A connects you can transition into SRSH for an unsafe mixup, Sig can follow through with SSH AA, or you can stop and do what I like to do and go for a+kA strings which come out at normal speed (i15 fastest) but due to the second low Sig has fear advantage... b6 is also a good followup after SSH A connects, safe, Mid, and at i16... If SSH A gets guarded either always follow through with the second low or stop at the first and guard yourself, SSH A and AA are both -17 on grd, could spell doom against a quick-minded Setsuka... In SSH B's case, SCD is your friend, if it hits Sig gets his rushdown wakeup and SBH K is a tech trap, if it gets blocked Sig is at -14 at the closest range, I consider this move safe... If you decide to transition into SBH, SBH K is i16 on grd, so most FC 2A will interrupt, giving the opponent +4 or +8 (on CH) and some chip damage usually isn't a good idea but it really depends on who you're fighting... If a+kA[A] connects then SSH K is i2, most auto-repel attacks will not work, on hit SSH K is a KND with OK wakeup, but on CH Sig gets his signature combo with a SBH tech trap... Combo is CH SSH K, a+k[A], SCH k, SBH B... Well, thats about it, if you read all this then thanks for your time and I hope you learned some stuff, mainly I hope you learned to use A+K!!!

A+K strings ARE Seigfried!!!
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This is what happens when you favor SC4 over your school days. ^_^
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Sacharja said:
Paragraphs. Use them.
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Yes indeed sheesh!
 
Your the one who can't use proper grammar. lol Why would you post some shit like that without paragraphs ? I don't know what they teaching in school nowadays.
 
^I try man, I try... Wasn't thinking man, sorry don't beat me to death, lol... No excuses now, use A+K with Sig right... U dnt No mee; foo...
 
Yep, it's right Thug... The situation b6 and 3A are being used in increases thier speed by 8 frames... b6 is i16 and 3A is i19, a+ka2A is +8 on hit and if those attacks were to follow they would come out at i6 and i11... So if you're fighting a Sig watch for that low!!!
 
No it's still the same amount of frames either way, it's just uninterruptable that's all. They'll still be i16 or whatever, it just can't be interrupted if that move that gives +8 hits.
 
There are 3 ways of thinking about it I'm familiar with:
1.) b6 is i16 speed at neutral, +8 means 8 frames faster, so an i16 will come out at i8...
2.) Opponent is at -8, the i16 comes out at it's neutral speed but the opponents attacks are slowed down by 8 frames due to hit stun, so an opponents i11 attack is now i19...
3.) 8 frames doesn't matter, attack and hope they made a mistake, who cares!!!

If you chose #2 you are correct, but I usually think about how attacks effect my character (the one I'm using) so I'll stick with #1... I say tomato, you say tomato...
 
What thugish is saying zombiebear, is that the move's frames aren't changing, all that's changing are the amount of frames the opponent has to interrupt/step/jump it. It's sort of important to note this so that you don't confuse people.

For example- Amy has her i18 2B+K which everyone considers unseeable. So it's safe to say, at i18, a low is extremely hard to react to. Now look at cass. Her 1A is i26, and many consider it pretty seeable. Now, say cass uses BK on hit, and is now at +9, then uses 1A. This situation by your description would cause her 1A to be i17, which is less seeable than amy's. But that's not the case, because you can recognize the move and block it in the same amount of frames. Thus, the move is still i26, the difference is that, to interrupt it, someone has to use something faster to hit her. In your example, B6 at i16 comes out 8 frames faster. If someone can impact 6B on reaction, they can still see this move and do it. Difference is, they'd have to use something faster than i8 (which doesn't exist) to interrupt you.
 
Destinizish said:
What thugish is saying zombiebear, is that the move's frames aren't changing, all that's changing are the amount of frames the opponent has to interrupt/step/jump it. It's sort of important to note this so that you don't confuse people.

For example- Amy has her i18 2B+K which everyone considers unseeable. So it's safe to say, at i18, a low is extremely hard to react to. Now look at cass. Her 1A is i26, and many consider it pretty seeable. Now, say cass uses BK on hit, and is now at +9, then uses 1A. This situation by your description would cause her 1A to be i17, which is less seeable than amy's. But that's not the case, because you can recognize the move and block it in the same amount of frames. Thus, the move is still i26, the difference is that, to interrupt it, someone has to use something faster to hit her. In your example, B6 at i16 comes out 8 frames faster. If someone can impact 6B on reaction, they can still see this move and do it. Difference is, they'd have to use something faster than i8 (which doesn't exist) to interrupt you.
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This is true.
 
@ManlyMcManLove*IRONTOOFBRUSH - Thus you must not have read #2!!!
But, it is exactly what I meant in that case, the move you use effects the opponent always, the animation of an attack is a constant, that can't be changed but how many frames an opponent remains neutral is altered... Setting them back or foward from neutral by an attack on hit or grd respectively determines how fast they can throw out a retaliation wether it be a Low (like Cass's 1A) or a GI even... Now, why would anyone be confused by this??? I just simplify it so it's easier to remember how characters are affected... There are just so many small things I leave out, so don't mind me I just feel like rambling... Good'ay!!!
 
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