Raphael : Patch Changes and Discussion

Theory craft time.
Gained:
60 dmg throw. 1/4 health without feeling guilty for the BE that kills you later on.
6BBB - Since the last hit was usually saved for CH only, being more unsafe is less of an issue. 6BBB CH can now be substituted for 6BB BE, into stun and potentially 6BB BE/other damage afterwards.
A mid during prep - prep K seems like it's going in the right direction, like the good old prep A, except slower and more unsafe, in fact the speed could be what was wrong in the first place a high risk high reward -esque move like this shouldn't be i20 (In the worst case we can just revert back to using it like in the pre patch; by not using it).
- 6BBB/prepBBB can also be used to counter TC moves (not right off 4(b) unfortunatly), and at a decent speed as opposed to prep K.

Lost:
SE - Nerfs to A in particular could be an issue, B had pretty dumb tracking though, but it still has great range and blockstun. A still is one of the best horizontals we have (sadly); it had better not be unsafe. Hopefully prep indirectly improves SE.
22B - Well as long as it does damage or poking well it's ok (and the alignment better be fixed). Seemingly this was too much for raph, even when having the worst A series in the game. Where is the Justice?
1B - No TC? I quit.
Overall what got strictly nerfed was SE and 22B, which doesn't seem to bad (on paper).

Also, watching the raph tourny plays, the 22B alignment issue is terribly aggravating, they should have just made 22B clean hit for 80 dmg half the time.
(Ah right, it is in the Patroklos SA...)
 
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #42
His undisputable top 3 moves all got changed. SE A and SE B were nerfed (understandable) though 22B is tweaked. 21 Mar will reveal to what degree.


In terms of underused moves getting interested tweaks, I agree prep K should have gotten an upgrade.

Note this gentlemen :

1.22B setups usually gives 80 damage with meter.
2.Now, you can do 33KBE for 76 (for the same meter) while being + on block (something even the almighty 22B cannot say).

So "if" (god forbid) 22B can't combo properly, its not the end of the world. 22B was one of raph's best meterless damage sources and I know 33KB wont' fill that void though.
Without meter, I actually did 22B, 3(B)~prepA(B) into pressure instead of 22(B)~prepBBB which would have given me about 4 extra damage.
 
I'm not going to make a true judgment until I can play post patch, and even then I'm sure I'll still love Raph. I'm not too worried at all.
 
WuHT said:
Note this gentlemen :

1.22B setups usually gives 80 damage with meter.
2.Now, you can do 33KBE for 76 (for the same meter) while being + on block (something even the almighty 22B cannot say).
.
Click to expand...

Hooray...instead of a safe, hit-confirmable move into a "guaranteed" damage combo+knockdown we get the option to throw out a move with meter that isn't hit-confirmable but does slightly more damage, since you can tack on 1 crappy hit at the end if you want...

Eff that.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #45
piggy said:
Hooray...instead of a safe, hit-confirmable move into a "guaranteed" damage combo+knockdown we get the option to throw out a move with meter that isn't hit-confirmable but does slightly more damage, since you can tack on 1 crappy hit at the end if you want...

Eff that.
Click to expand...

33KBE is better than "Safe", its + on block!
It also knockdown.
It will probably do 85 if you just do 6BB/2B as your ender
Its also faster and will work on airborne opponents (more specific)

You make it seem terrible, and in a low-committal poking game of course 22B is 2nd to none. However, if you need raw damage 33KBE seems to be here.
 
WuHT said:
33KBE is better than "Safe", its + on block!
It also knockdown.
It will probably do 85 if you just do 6BB/2B as your ender
Its also faster and will work on airborne opponents (more specific)

You make it seem terrible, and in a low-committal poking game of course 22B is 2nd to none. However, if you need raw damage 33KBE seems to be here.
Click to expand...

That's because compared to 22B, 33K BE IS terrible. + on block for half a meter is cute, but with the pushback on 33K BE, I'm not even sure you get uninterruptable throw attempt, which would at least give you a 50 / 50...GI would be a better use of this meter, cause at least you KNOW you are saving yourself from something.

Time will tell, I suppose, before too long we'll know what all the changes are, but I'm expecting things to be really bad, like, AE bad, for Raph, cause they always are.
 
Fendante said:
I kind of know what you mean...but we'll have to do what we gotta do. Im never gonna give on Raph, and Im sure he'll still be playable. Too late to request any more changes.
Click to expand...

He's playable now because of 22B, and only because of 22B, though SE is a nice addition. Everything else doesn't matter and is only there to set up 22B - if 22B gets much worse, then Raph gets much worse (which is hard to believe), but again, we'll find out in a couple of days.

I don't wanna stop playing Raph, but if he doesn't have tools to win, then I'll need to find a new character with tools to win...simple as that.
 
If 6BBB/Prep BBB becomes REAL good and 22B becomes REAL bad then we can talk. But until then let's just not speculate one way or another.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #49
piggy said:
That's because compared to 22B, 33K BE IS terrible. + on block for half a meter is cute, but with the pushback on 33K BE, I'm not even sure you get uninterruptable throw attempt, which would at least give you a 50 / 50...GI would be a better use of this meter, cause at least you KNOW you are saving yourself from something.
.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly the limited context i'm bringing it up, when you're stepping something very obvious 33KBE will be very comparable to 22B because you're basically looking for as much damage as reliably as possible. On the off chance they block it in time then you're not totally screwed.
 
Ok guys, i am getting kinda tired of all this. I was excited at first to find a new combos with Raph after i heard about the upgrade versions of 6BB BCH and Prep K CH, but so far(about 40 minutes now) all i can find is 2B, 2K or CE if you have the metter. This is a bit of a letdown. You can go for 1B, but opponent can roll to hi right side. 77/33 K B, BE works as a tech trap for more than 130 damage, but if they stay on the ground...well u get the idea.

SE nerfs, especially SE B will hurt my game HARD!
 
Perhaps they thought 22B overshadowed 33Kbe and so they nerfed the former and buffed the latter(or they tought they did) ?

Raph : why make things simple when they can be complicated...
 
Sorry guys but 3B doesnt combo anymore after 22B.
Ce still combo tho, if that's a way to rejoice ..
 
So 22K is the move of choice now? That...sucks, since it's on CH only. Maybe 4(B) is the way to go. I suppose we'll have to use much, much more SE K to stop people from walking against SE and get them to duck as well.

This is ridiculous and nearly makes the character unplayable. Nightmare, here we come. (It's Raphael anyway, right?)
-DC:sc5nm1:
 
I love how there's just nothing good about this.

So PS is now 4 for 4 on screwing Raph in the first update to every SC since 2. All we can do now is hope there will be another patch in the future.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Moderator
  • #59
Black_Dog said:
Perhaps they thought 22B overshadowed 33Kbe and so they nerfed the former and buffed the latter(or they tought they did) ?
..
Click to expand...

move redundancy right here. 22B lead to better damage, had more range, and was safer. All 33KB had for it was he BE option (even then less damage than 22B with a metered followup), possible ringout if they're really close to edge, slightly faster and can combo better agaisnt airborne opponents.

With his line of logic, I'm just glad none of 4A, 22A, 3A, 22K was nerfed. Heck, a lot of characters were hit hard.

I forgot about the damage scaling kicking into effect for 33KBE (post patch), because damage scaling doesn't affect prepK BE thats for sure (in fact the 2nd hit does more damage because the opponent is BT)
 
Seriously all this crying for one move? I mean it was a great tool and everything, but quitting him cause one move? :S
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back