Attention Cervantes players

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Well, you started whining about the changes people wanted.
Then some Cervy players started lying about him having "great weakness" and being "high risk/high reward". Drama followed.
You mostly reacted about a random 92dmg move being -13 btw, don't change the facts :) Scrubby whining it is !
 
Long time ago that i ve been on 8wr. wtf happened here? cervantes overpowered? what a bullshit...i see where this is coming from ...some angry dude didnt know how to deal with cervy and started a dumb cervantes is bla bla war. If they really do all the stuff some of u guys want than what is gonna be the result? He is already having a hardtime...anyway i think namco doesnt give a shit what some of you want.
 
XshadeX said:
Long time ago that i ve been on 8wr. wtf happened here? cervantes overpowered? what a bullshit...i see where this is coming from ...some angry dude didnt know how to deal with cervy and started a dumb cervantes is bla bla war. If they really do all the stuff some of u guys want than what is gonna be the result? He is already having a hardtime...anyway i think namco doesnt give a shit what some of you want.
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See what I mean Docvizzo?
 
Maxou said:
Well, you started whining about the changes people wanted.
Then some Cervy players started lying about him having "great weakness" and being "high risk/high reward". Drama followed.
You mostly reacted about a random 92dmg move being -13 btw, don't change the facts :) Scrubby whining it is !
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Yes because i actually checked what making 3B would mean balance wise. It would massively benefit 3-4 characters, Rest would get BB instad of AA. 10 DMG boost for 80% of the chars, 90 DMG boost for Alpha PAtroklos, 50+ damage boost for Pyrrha and Omega, Patroklos. I actually started a list but then stopped since i thought scrubs wont understand anyways, so i did not want to waste my time.

How many characters have a very damaging tool between i13 and i15? Or a CE which is i14?

Thats indeed a very clever change. Helping the other top tier characters. Not like those three are already his harder matchups. But since people are morons they only judge by their one, own matchup. Balancewise its a retarded change. Taking away tiprange properties or less damage can be argued, so when you in the range where AA doesn't hit you dont get launch reward. All i hear is mimimimi all 3Bs are unsafe so his should be more unsafe, too. Very clever reasoning. I applaud you guys.
 
docvizzo said:
Thats indeed a very clever change. Helping the other top tier characters. Not like those three are already his harder matchups. But since people are morons they only judge by their one, own matchup.
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This part I agree. Changing frames on block will help certain punish-orientated characters improve their matchups, and will definately not really help lower tier characters (which can easily be forgotten in a nerf proposal discussion).

What would you think is "fair damage" in terms of risk/reward for a i18 mid launcher that that is -13 on block ? I think 80ish damage is already very generous for a move like that (being a third of the opponent's life bar).

Cervantes seems to gain complementary benefits to his moves due to the properties of his other moves. His threat of his step kill helps reduce the chance of 3B being stepped, and the raw damage potential of eating a 3B makes twitch ducking a poor choice (which helps 1AB and his grab game).

What do you pirate mainers think 3B's role is ? It's at the very least his staple combo fishing launcher (due to big damage) and its secondary role is to entice the opponent into trying to step for better punishment (but risk against the pirate's step kill) and its tertiary role is to keep the opponent from wanting to duck due to fear (which helps his lows/grabs). However, from what i'm reading at least one of you wants it to be a "get off move" safe pushout move at close range, which seems to make 3B a super versatile move.

My final comment is : I actually don't understand why Shen would think the pirate should even have strong keep-away moves comparable to siegfried and astaroth (his patroklus comparison brings up the much discussed 66B so i'll leave that example out). I believe the pirate's close range game to be better than sieg's and astaroth.

And thenovator vs xshadex lol. Not sure they are actually contributing to a resolution.
 
Personally I think Cervy's 3B is not balanced very good (too much damage, too safe) but indeed making it more unsafe would only help characters like Alpha, Omega etc... as someone who plays Ivy, to me it doesn't make any change if the move is -13 or -15 on block. It would have to be -16 or more to punish him for more damage, but that's too much.

I don't know, maybe the best solution would be to reduce the damage and leave the block frames the way they are now... damage should be capped at 70-80 max imo, which is already more than what most characters get of generic 3B's w/o a meter.
 
^Actually I was probably thinking of that 3B shouldn't launch anybody at tip range. I'm thinking more like what it was in SC4 somewhat similiar to Pyrha's 236B at tip range.
 
Ring said:
Personally I think Cervy's 3B is not balanced very good (too much damage, too safe) but indeed making it more unsafe would only help characters like Alpha, Omega etc... as someone who plays Ivy, to me it doesn't make any change if the move is -13 or -15 on block. It would have to be -16 or more to punish him for more damage, but that's too much.

I don't know, maybe the best solution would be to reduce the damage and leave the block frames the way they are now... damage should be capped at 70-80 max imo, which is already more than what most characters get of generic 3B's w/o a meter.
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First post concerning 3B that makes sense, finally somebody gets my point :)

Something like this could be ok. Also iGDR should not have a clean hit, i still dont get the idea behind random damage buffs in general.

Most people do 3B iGDR b2 for the wakeup options, so capping this one at 75ish damage seems to make sense.
 
To me, the only real big problem is the iGDR dmg in combos.

Thats what makes 1AB and 3B are so retarded.



3B ~ iGDR ~ b2 should be 74-76

3B ~ x2 iGDR should be 80-84

+ no LNC at tiprange!

still it would be very good dmg for such a safe move, but at least it wouldn't be completely retarded!



as for aB:

It is a punisher right?

usually you cant spamm punishers, as they are designed to be punishers
and not to throw them out to "keep away" or "interupt" or just randomly bc you can.

But you can do that with aB, so they need to remove the pushback to
force cervantes players to use it like it was supposed to.

Any other nerf isn't necessary,i know some things like 22K or bA can be annoying but they're not retarded - no need to nerf.
 
I really hope everyone stops whining, but that's never possible. I really think he's fine the way it is. He can adapt to any situation, regardless of bad matchups. Every strategy has its own flaws and strengths. Walking up and guard like what Maxou said, you can grab etc. And to address safe interrupters, if the matchup needs you to use A, A or 3K or 2A, u just have to do it, not that you can't throw out aB but if the opponent is looking out for it, you're done for. There's always a huge risk, so aB is fine the way it is. You deserved to be punished if u throw it out like that.

And to get in from a far, there's really some creative ways to get in. Just think, you definitely need to work, don't expect to get in easily against top players. Well, that's the case with most of the cast anyway.

If you really want to nerf Cervy, just take away 3B tip launch. I do admit it's very powerful to be able to launch at tip, and it's also one reason why Cervy can zone very well, because he can punish whiffs from a distance. With this gone, if you want high dmg from a long range punish, you have to be efficent in your iGDR.

bA is also really very powerful because this move kills people who whiff punish really well. It's good to have in his arsenal, whether it warrants a nerf is questionable at this point.

3A deserves a buff/nerf, take away the knockdown on normal hit, make it knockdown on CH, pushes out on block -8 should be good, like how it used to be in SC3/4.

Everything esle is fine. You have to work hard, this character is not easy to play, face that fact.
 
I would like to say that I took my time and read the whole thread. Now I need some painkillers...

There's simply too many posts in here I would like to reply to but at this time it's impossible.

I'll simply remain out of this.

PS. I love my sig!

Edit: Bah:

Cervantes' damage is ok the way it is. He's unsafe and iGDR is impossible to have it 100% consistent and worse you get punished for missing it. If people want it's damage reduced either make it easier to perform or Nerf Patrocklo's 80+ damage potential out of 66B. The move is already too good but having 80+ dmg combos out of it make Cervy look like a baby. That to mention a few.

I agree with 1AB. You can have it removed from the game if that would make everyone happy.

Imo the reason why 3B launches regardless of range is because this game whole is programmed for beginners. You can see that by not be able to delay certain moves anymore or the hold level of others is far limited compared to previous games.

There are greater problems than Cervantes in this game. So I really think before he gets nerfed of some of the aforementioned atrocities here in the forums, I'll see others being touched first.

I'll now stay out of this.
 
Cervantes is very strong, but how many people are actually repping him well in tournaments (btw mad props to Shen for 2nd at the worlds biggest stage, hasn't been done since nationals in SC2). Cervantes is hard to use, he's not brainless and he can certainly be beaten. People always want to scream nerf instead of going into practice. I get away w/MURDER online cause nobody knows how to punish him

Moldredd: Pat is my backup and I agree 100% his 66B is nothing short of silly. Him and Algol are by and far the cheapest chars in the game if they are used right
 
Algol isnt as cheap as you think. He may have large hitting BE combos but other than that he doesnt have any heavy hitting moves. Algol is heavily Meter oriented for any combo capability. Cervantes can do 120+ DAM off a 44A+B. Meterless. But off course that move is pretty slow but has a decent backstep to it and can punish baited attacks.
Algol's 44B is slow but safe, and with 4xBE can potentially kill you in one combo. But meterless hiss most powerfull combo is 44B>66A+B>iFC 8B.

Pat's 66B is ridicoulously powerfull yet easy. And safe due to pushback. I dont know why people complain about Cervantes' 3B but still haven't raised a fuss about Pats's 66B yet. Not saying that Cerv 3B doesnt need attention because it does, but Pat 66B is worse Imo. Oh, and Pat has this http://8wayrun.com/threads/patroklos-a-b-glitch-scv-v1-03.14122/
 
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