Sanwa 4-way gate vs. 8-way gate

C

Conral

[08] Mercenary
Lately I haven't been playing much Soul Calibur 4, but have been playing my share of super turbo on GGPO and HD Remix on PS3. As such, I thought it was really cool to see the new MadCatz sticks coming out. I have two SF4 TE sticks pre-ordered, and I am curious to see how these will work with Soul Calibur. These two sticks are going to be my first ever I'll ever own.

I know there's a learning curve involved with transitioning from a pad to stick, but I'm not too concerned about that. However, I am interested to see what those of you with sticks prefer with regards to 4-way or 8-way gates and what fighting games you play, if any outside of Soul Calibur 4.

As a side note, I've always played fighting games with a pad. I grew up playing Street Fighter on an SNES pad, and first played Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast and held the controller with my left hand with my right hand elevated over the buttons. Street Fighter is pretty difficult to play on a pad, but I've become relatively comfortable with the PS3 controller now for that. I found that the Dreamcast to PS3 controller transition was pretty seamless for Soul Calibur, and I don't have too many complaints.
 
I like the GT-Y octagonal (8 way) gates. In the USA, gates are 360/circular, but I like the feel of defined corners to let me know when I hit a direction. Thus I like that octagonal gates offer a mix between square and circle, with advantages of both.
 
I prefer the octagonal gates... but there is one serious issues with them, they fail the "throw test". Since there are more defined corners, the cardinal directions must be DEEPER. Because of this, if you hold the joystick in a cardinal direction (such as 6) and let the joystick go, it will bounce far and hit the opposite direction (such as 4), before it returns to neutral at 5. The square gates do not have this problem. You may have some luck in solving this problem by getting a sheath for the metal shaft of your joystick.. it worked for me, it doesnt work for most.
 
I like square gates. Most Japanese arcade cabinets have them (probably not a concern for most people, but I do still enjoy the random game on a cab on my trips to the Philippines) and it's really easy to find diagonals for SRK motions and whatnot. I also dig the shorter throw, feels more efficient.

This is for SC4, GGXX^C, SSF2THDR, and a bit of dabbling in T5/DR. I can make do with a pad in 3d games, but vastly prefer stick. Can't play 2d games on a pad for the life of me...
 
Jaxel said:
I prefer the octagonal gates... but there is one serious issues with them, they fail the "throw test". Since there are more defined corners, the cardinal directions must be DEEPER. Because of this, if you hold the joystick in a cardinal direction (such as 6) and let the joystick go, it will bounce far and hit the opposite direction (such as 4), before it returns to neutral at 5. The square gates do not have this problem. You may have some luck in solving this problem by getting a sheath for the metal shaft of your joystick.. it worked for me, it doesnt work for most.
Click to expand...

That's true of the Sanwa JLF octo gates (or so I've heard). However that's not the case for all japanese sticks. I, too, prefer octagonal gates, so when I built my custom I used a Seimitsu LS-56. The optional octagonal gate for this stick actually has LESS throw than the stock square gate. I've been quite happy with it.

-=The Jesster: Gatchaba Goose=-
 
Jesster said:
That's true of the Sanwa JLF octo gates (or so I've heard). However that's not the case for all japanese sticks. I, too, prefer octagonal gates, so when I built my custom I used a Seimitsu LS-56. The optional octagonal gate for this stick actually has LESS throw than the stock square gate. I've been quite happy with it.

-=The Jesster: Gatchaba Goose=-
Click to expand...
Umm... its IMPOSSIBLE for an octagonal gate to have LESS throw than the stock square gate. A stock square gate has flat lines for the cardinal directions; thats how the throws are. With an octagonal gate, those flat lines are turned concave, which lead to longer throws. To have less throw, the flat lines would be turned convex; making them pretty much impossible to hit.
 
Jaxel said:
Umm... its IMPOSSIBLE for an octagonal gate to have LESS throw than the stock square gate. A stock square gate has flat lines for the cardinal directions; thats how the throws are. With an octagonal gate, those flat lines are turned concave, which lead to longer throws. To have less throw, the flat lines would be turned convex; making them pretty much impossible to hit.
Click to expand...

You're assuming the throw to the diagonals remains the same, which is not the case with the LS-56 octo-gate. Rather than pushing the cardinal directions out and making them "concave" as you say, they pull the diagonal points in a bit to get the same result. Thus, less throw overall.

Basically, a square gate has greater throw on the diagonals than on the cardinal directions, while an octagonal gate has the same throw in all 8 directions. To achieve the octagonal result you can either increase the throw on the cardinal directions until they are equal to the diagonals (as with the JLF octo), or you can decrease the the throw on the diagonals until it is equal to the cardinals (as with the LS-56 octo).

More info on the Seimitsu LS-56 here: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=161154
 
I definitely have to look into this. I have the exact problem Jaxel is talking about and also have a SF4 TE stick pre-ordered. I assumed the problem I was having was the stick was cheap (SC4 Hori stick), but it only started occurring after putting the oct gate in. I'll have to order the LS-56 and see if that fixes the problem.
 
An octagonal gate might have equalized throw, but the engage isn't equal.

http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/restrictors.html

lol, totally playin' theory stick fighter here. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

anyway, I would think that if you're riding the gate (which you would probably have to do with an octagonal gate) that introduces tension, and tension reduces speed, which is what I thought was part of the equation (you want accuracy, but you wanna be able to do things fast as well).

supposedly on a square gate, you can hit a diagonal without riding the gate (hence extra throw), which makes more sense factoring in quick qcf motions or stuff like, I dunno, wavedashing, etc.

Like I said, I honestly don't know (waiting for that TE stick, ha) but it sounds like it makes sense to me. I'm biased by that page though. >_>

Um, supposedly the Japanese cabs come standard square, so you could just transfer right over to the arcade machine, but honestly I can't tell you if I'd be going to Japan anytime soon... so I guess that really isn't an argument.
 
You know, you could always just get both and swap between them. Then you'll find out which one you like. Both gates are like 4 bucks each at LizardLick, and the SF4 TE will probably come with the stock; order one octo and then switching them is as simple as opening the back of your stick and popping the damn things off.

Also, on this note, do people not use low GIs/low parries all that often? One of the main reasons I got the octo gate was that I could find 1 and 3 a lot easier. The only problem is that going to SF, I'm going to need SRK motions, and although I've pretty much got it down on an octo gate, I was wondering if anybody else had that problem.

Also, this is on a Hori EX2. I'm building my full custom this Saturday. Don't know if I'll have that problem with a real Sanwa JLF, but figure I should prepare.

Jaxel, I also have a shaft cover, and at least from the testing I've done with my loose JLFs, it doesn't seem to fail the throw test. Is that all you did to fix it?
 
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