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ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
Yo. I'm ZeroEffect317, (or just ZeroEffect) and welcome to my Talim player guide. Chances are if you're reading this, than you are like me and found something about this character that you ended up falling in love with. Whether it's because of her fun and fluid playstyle, or her endearing/annoying personality, or even if you just wanted to try someone different from your usual type of character, Talim managed to stand out to each of you in some way. This guide is for those of you who are either interested in picking up the adorable wind-priestess, or are simply looking to get a different feel for how to strategize with her.
Side note: If you're a newer player or don't have knowledge of the move notations, (ie: 2A, 66A+B, kG, CH B:B, etc...) Talim's combos/techtraps, or her stances, I would suggest visiting the proper threads on 8wayrun to get familiar with them before attempting to read this. It will be necessary for understanding this guide.
As you've probably already figured out through experience, Talim is a character who's style is based around speed, combos, and evasion, (rather than heavy hitting) to create her offense. That being said, Talim is not the fastest character in the game, as characters like Setsuka and Taki make her almost look slow by comparison. She doesn't do incredible amounts of damage either, and actually has one of, if not the lowest damage outputs of the entire cast.
So why play her?
Well, she is an offensive, pressure-oriented character with lots of mixup opportunities to create fear in the opponent. Yes. Even without a super damaging move or Auto-GI, Talim can still create enough fear and hesitation with her various strings and delays to mess with an opponent's head. The general idea is to hit them enough times to bait a reaction, and once that reaction becomes predictable, you can make use of Talim's evasive moves to continue offensive pressure. Before any real strategy can be made, however, we need to look at the essential moves Talim should be using in SC4 and how they are used.
A Attacks (Horizontal attacks)
(17 dmg) - At 13 frames, this is fastest attack in her movelist. It's good for interrupting your opponents next attack, and good as a close range sidestep killer. goes into 1 of 3 enders: (36 dmg), (32 dmg), and (48 dmg). is NCC. and only combo if your opponent is in stun. (AA6BA is also a versatile stance transition, but more on this move later...)
(8 dmg) - A standard fast 2A. Very important move for Talim since majority of her sidestep killers are Highs. Late TC and Gives frame advantage on hit.
WR (Rising A) (20 dmg) - Decent move. One of 2 mid options Talim has for stopping sidestep. Safe to most of the cast at -12 on block, but can be punished by a few. Otherwise, it's a mid-range 17 frame KND mid-level move. For Talim you won't get much better than that.
(26 dmg) - This is a good move. 17 frame high that catches step really well, KNDs, and wallsplats. Goes into AS and WL by pressing 6 or 4 respectively on either hit or block. Combos with AS A for 40 dmg as well as tech trap in all directions. Great move to use post-GI. (Has some whiffing issues with the 2nd hit.)
_ (35 dmg) - Another good move. 18 frame mid step killer that TCs, (then TJs at the end), KNDs, and wallsplats. Decent damage too. Only downside is it being unsafe on block. One of 2 mid options she has for killing step.
_ (29 dmg) - This move has really deceptive reach. Looks faster than the 21 frames suggest and gives +7 on hit. (Turns opponent around.) Easily her best long-range step killer. Safe too.
(20 dmg) - Good move. On it's own it's safe and soul crushes in 20. (decent for a horizontal). Has the range of and kills step completely. Negative on hit, plus on CH. has two enders: , and . is NC and guarantees for 51 dmg. (More if they tech.) But is unsafe on block. can be held for a really long time. Max charge is safe, but easily interruptable. Used for those who like to GI 2nd hit.
(24 dmg) - TJ horizontal high. Very good on block and seems to catch step better at advantage. NC.
(Ice Wind Combo aka "IWC") (44 dmg) - Horizontal mid, canned 3 hit string. NC, but really unsafe if blocked, Has a late TC as well. Best used after sidestepping an attack as it increases damage from side hit.
B Attacks (Vertical attacks)
(25 dmg) - 15 frame standard BB. Gives +4 on hit. One of Talim's core moves to set up frame traps and/or block pressure.
(21 dmg) - Fast 16 frame jab move that puts Talim in BT. Gives +10 on any hit, making everything but BT A a frame trap. Very good on block as well.
(14 dmg) - Early and brief TC, but is a good interrupt as it stuns on CH. has two enders: (30 dmg) and (40 dmg). The held version has multiple charge times so you can almost release the A at any time. non max charge is always NC. Downside is that the A is duckable if is blocked. / can go into WC transition.
(14 dmg) - Crouching mid that hits grounded as well. Good for finishing rounds when your opponent is down. Decent range and puts you at neutral (0 frames) on hit as well.
(21 dmg) - Underrated move for Talim. At 14 frames this is her fastest mid attack. Though unsafe, it almost never gets punished if used sparingly and makes for a good interrupt.
(16 dmg) - Good ranged tool. Stuns on CH. has two enders: (32 dmg) and. is a great interrupt and NCC, but unfortunately can't be CH confirmed. Sometimes catches backstep really well.
(15 dmg/20 if they hit the ground) - This move is the whiff punisher of choice for Talim even though it's unsafe. TCs, leads to damaging combos, and various RO options if it hits. It has a charge version, (22dmg), which makes the move safe on block at max charge. It also prolongs the TC if held down.
FC (8 dmg) - This 16 frame, TCing mid attack, is one of her best moves. This move is part of a string (FC ) that on CH can lead to good combos and her best RO options. The second B launches on any hit, but the string is not NC. The beauty of this string lies in its delay window. (more on this later)
WS
(Rising B) (18 dmg) - One of the fastest while standing moves in the game at 14 frames. It's the only reason this move is important. It's perfectly safe, but slightly negative on hit.
BT
(24 dmg) - THE BT move of choice. It stuns on any hit and leads to her biggest combo damage (see combo thread in Talim Soul Arena). very unsafe on block though, even though you can opt to go into WC stance to thwart vertical punishers.
Jump
(28 dmg) - TJ high attack that launches behind Talim. Good damage with BT
followup (BT
for reverse RO), good as a throw stopper. Very good on block and forces opponent in crouch.
(28 dmg) - Talim's staple long range whiff punisher. TJ linear high that KNDs on any hit for combos. Great on block and whiff recovery is good. Only downsides are it's linearity and deceptively slow startup.
(20 dmg) - KNDs on any hit, decent ranged mid. Best when used with the ender (or : for combo damage). and the JF version are both NC. JF version cannot be juked.
(33 dmg) - Launches on any hit and goes into AS or WL transition. Hits grounded (most of the time) for good ground damage and wakeup setups. Very unsafe without transition.
(20 dmg) - Great ranged TJ mid that puts her in BT, AND also can go into all of her stances. (This is the only move she has that can do that). Also has fastest transition animations since she's coming from BT. Forces crouch on block. Unsafe, but very versatile in escaping punishment.
(28 dmg) - Good move for damage and CF. Forces crouch on block. This move can also go into all her stances, but has the slowest transition startup making it not as useful there. It is, however, the only attack she has that is safe without transition. Decent range too, but it has a slow startup.
(30 dmg) - Possibly her best move. Long range KND attack that also serves as the core of her CF game (more on that later). This move is technically unsafe at -14, but the knockback on block basically makes it safe in open field. The real greatness of this move is it's cancel (
) that can bait reactions from opponents and prevent GI. Only downsides are it's slow speed and damage output.
(24 dmg) - Fast move, gives advantage on hit with AS transition and launches on CH for combos and RO. It's unsafe and has a good chance of being hit out of transition. Still, it's a very important move for grounded hits as it stops any and all rolls. This is the move that you want to scare people into standing up into your mixups.
(18 dmg) - This is the closest thing Talim has to a panic button. Easily her best interrupt, as it's a fast 17 frame move with a very low TC that ducks certain horizontal mids. KNDs on hit for combos, and launches on CH. Tracks step to one side in close. Only downside is it's unsafe on block, but usually doesn't get punished hard (or at all) if used sparingly. (TC is almost instant.)
K Attacks (Kick/Body attacks)
(12 dmg) - Same speed as but longer range. Gives +2 on hit, but mostly useful in situations where doesn't reach.
(18 dmg) - 16 frame ranged side kick. Makes for a decent interrupt, but unsafe on block. Gives a SHK stun on CH allowing for mixups or combo damage if they don't shake. Very linear and has bad whiff recovery.
(12 dmg) - Standard 15 frame low kick. Negative on hit, and doesn't TC like it appears, but still very important for Talim. She is lacking in good lows, but as long as you're within range to throw this out, you're in good shape to start an offense.
(16 dmg) - Another decent low. It's one frame better on hit than (-3 instead of -4) and better damage. Range is still a problem, but this low is sneaky and hits grounded as well. This low seems to catch step somewhat as well, much better than her circular for some reason.
WS (Rising K) (16 dmg) - This normally wouldn't be all that useful at all since it's not very damaging and the range is pretty bad, but if you do hit it, it gives you +6 on any hit. On air hit, this move floats for air combos with (if you're quick enough) or .
(20 dmg) - Honestly there's not much reason at all to use or since they do the same thing for less damage. This move in general is one of her fastest TJs, and has a deceptive animation that looks like a low when it's actually a mid. Gives +2 on hit and does ok Soul Gauge damage as well.
_ (18 dmg) - This is Talim's anti-mixup tool and is very underrated. It TCs in the initial frames, TJs afterwards, and sidesteps all in one move. (She'll move to the side you input. is one way, is the other). It's pretty fast at 18 frames, is good on block, and leaves you at 0 on hit. It's also a good way to change your ring position quickly. Only downside is it being a high.
_ (33 dmg) - Her best low. It has a late TC, hits grounded, and is NC giving you +2 on hit. Does decent damage for a low. Seems to catch step ok too. The A is high so if is blocked, you can be whiff punished. Only downside is it's not too fast. It is fast enough to be effective though.
(32 dmg) - Safe to most of the cast. This 19 frame move is a double mid kick that has a late TJ and KNDs on any hit. Decent range for her and strangely catches step sometimes even though it's a linear move.
These are the most useful tools Talim has in pretty much every matchup. There are uses for some of the moves I didn't mention, but generally they are very situational or character specific. (You may see them pop up when I go over her matchup strategy.) Now that we know what to work with, we can move forward.
Like any character, the key to mastering them is in understanding what they are good at as well as what they struggle with. Here's a list of the best options she has for what you want to accomplish when attacking.
Pokes: Talim doesn't shine in this area, but here's generally what I like to use:
/
Interrupts: She is pretty decent for CH interrupts, and some lead to good combo damage.
/ ( on CH interrupt)
/ (GREAT move if you can predict a CH with it and hold down the A appropriately)
iFC/FC
Range/closing in/anti-Backstep: Unfortunately, Talim's general lack of range hurts her here, but she still has some decent ranged moves to prevent constant backstep.
(deceptive range)
(Only sometimes. +1 on block, TCs throughout, and it's cancellable if opponent tries to GI you)
Ringouts: This is one of her strong points.
(my favorite)
most launchers ->
most launchers ->
-> AS
throw/ mixup (yes they can block and mash A. train them to break B)
WR (safe option that works like )
(TC option that works like WR )
WC/WC : (Works really well for evading a linear move with your back to the edge)
Critical Finish: She's not the best at this, but is far better than most think.
/WL
(completely safe w/o transition, forces crouch)
WC~ or WC :
(grounded only)
*Her CF game will come into play more when understanding her fear-advantage game which I'll explain later.
Talim's Strengths
As mentioned before, Talim is an offensive pressure based character. What this means, is that if you can establish a fast pace within a round, your chances of winning improve dramatically. It can be very easy, (even for us Talim players), to be mesmerized by her fluid movement if used correctly. However, this doesn't mean that Talim has to always be attacking in order to establish such a pace. On paper, Talim's frame data doesn't allow her to be aggressive at all. But Talim can get around this by making use of her "fear advantage" setups.
Talim has a lot of multiple-hit strings, and a lot of these strings have delays and cancels in them. Looking at the frame data, most of these strings on their own, can be pretty risky either due to lack of safety, or being duckable/steppable/GI-able on reaction. So how is a Talim player to overcome this? By turning that knowledge against them.
Let's take for example. This 4 hit string is not NC or NCC (unless in a Stun combo), and the last A can be ducked. Since we know that, a good tactic is to do only the first 3 hits of the string (). Now normally, is technically unsafe, but because the opponent has to wait to see if the 4th hit comes out, they lose the opportunity to punish you. This also applies to the delay after . You can choose whether or not to do , and by mixing it up, this can cause hesitation as well.
This kind of trick gives the illusion that Talim is sitting on good frames after a lot more moves than she should be in theory. Her FC becomes very dangerous on block because of this tactic. On it's own, FC is about -18 or so. But due to the decent delay window, this move becomes almost perfectly safe The opponent has to gamble an attack and risk being launched themselves... which, given Talim's excellent RO ability, is not a healthy risk to take.
The cancel on can oftentimes bait GIs and allow for BT combos. But the same principle applies, making this extremely slow move a semi practical GB.
Lastly, her wind transitions can serve the same purpose. If you use moves like and FC and the opponent expects you to jump over their heads, they are likely to run forward or sidestep to escape the windsault mixup. But by doing this, they are giving up an opportunity to punish you if you opted NOT to go into transition. So these moves, that are both launch punishable essentially become safe! So you want to get in the practice of using these unfinished strings and cancels to keep up the offensive.
Talim's Weaknesses
About 90% of Talim's problems stem from the fact that she has just about the shortest range in the game. This makes fighting characters with good ranged spacing tools, along with good backstep and/or retreating moves, a real pain to fight against. She also has to watch for moves with good knockback on block as it really hampers her ability to punish, and sometimes creates situations where Talim has to take a defensive stance at advantage.
There are good number of unsafe moves from other characters, that either become insanely hard to punish consistantly, (ie: Mitsu RLC) or become completely safe against Talim (ie: Cervy ) due to range issues. In these cases, Talim has to play defensively if pushed out too far, or she must try to force mixups instead of going for guaranteed damage. You must keep in mind that although you can't punish those moves, you still can make use of your advantage frames to get within close range, bait whiffs, or simply make them block moves for CF damage.
One of the harder things to do as a Talim player is to penetrate long-range spacing tactics. Her best attacking options for closing the gap are and into windsault, (Pro-tip: if you can nail the Windsault : JF at will, that's probably her safest ranged option). In some cases, however, you'll want to move in without attacking. True, running in full speed isn't the best option, but taking short forward runs while stepping or even backstepping to bait whiffs helps you to get in and hopefully score some whiff punishment damage. Try to read what moves your opponent is looking for to keep you out
What makes this hard isn't really getting through the spacing, but just how often you find yourself having to do it. A move causes knockback on block? gotta get back inside. Opponent knocks you down? gotta get back inside. Opponent breaks a throw? gotta get back inside... rinse and repeat. Good movement and defense is essential for getting through quickly and re-establishing the pace you want.
Here's a few tips to keep in mind while using her.
1. What you generally want to do with Talim is to make your opponents want to attack you.
One thing Talim is very good at is whiff punishment, so if you can make people attack you predictably you can out yourself in positions to really hurt them for it.
2. Be aware at your range from your opponent at all times.
The worst place for Talim to fight at, is just outside the range of her. This is because her low pokes, and , won't reach and her throws won't either most of the time. she does have attacks that will cover that range, but you literally lose your mixup potential completely if you stay there. Fortunately, if you're aware of this, you can easily fix this problem by sidestepping, attacking with moves that propel you forward, or even backstepping.
* Yes, backstepping. Believe it or not, Talim is better off at mid to far range than she is at that inside range where doesn't hit. , , , , and windsault are all decent options at that range. These are slow moves in close, but they do good gauge damage (except ) and have deceptive reach to them. The other important thing about being at far range is that at that range, 90% of the cast has very seeable and predictable long-range options, so it's a lot easier to play defense and move around.
3. Staying with the range point; when you knock an opponent down, it's important to run up to them or use a forward jumping move to keep from losing ground.
Sometimes you can run up and throw and catch them getting up too soon, or you can run up and should they start to roll. Unless you use her throw or command throw, you won't be right on top of your downed opponent and will have to close in again. It's easier to do this when their grounded.
4. is her best tool when you need a power mid.
Although it's slow, it's animation makes it hard to GI/step or react to with anything but a guard. This move breaks in 10 and is safe, so guarding is something you almost want them to do anyway. It also becomes a force block after WC B:B so it's an alternative for landing BT B combos if you don't use the ender. If it hits, you can get a free .
5. As mentioned, Talim has a very solid RingOut game. Understand your RO options and try to RO whenever possible.
When the edge is to Talim's left, and WR are your moves. For the right you have her throw and . Behind you have -> BT , and if you step left you can try for the side throw RO. For front ROs, you can CH fish for FC , you can use with a number of followups (my favorite and longest ranged is -> AS ) and you can threaten with a post GI mixup using 66A vs a delayed 66A. is also vital as you can use it after launchers , WL , and for ROs.
*Once you have full knowledge of all your options near a ring edge, you can then build a strong edge-control game. You can use moves like to stay in front of your opponent as they try to step away from the edge. becomes a good pressure tool here since you have the strong GI threat. Your opponent will be hesitant to throw out a fast attack if you've forced enough post-GI ROs, so you can then start using quick attacks on disadvantage (, , are all good here) or just adjust your position by stepping to avoid their linear moves, or trying to stay with them as they move around. If they do like to try to interrupt, use that GI ( AND from time to time) and take your free RO mixup.
6. Talim's standard wakeup (oki) game is boiled down to a few options., , , , and .
These moves all hit grounded, and work best when you're near your downed opponent. With, and , you also have something of a mixup with the mids if they get up right away.
- is used to stop rolls. Its lack of safety makes it a gamble in close matches, but usually makes up for it by forcing them to stand up quickly if used enough. Good for CF too (Breaks in 10)
- can stop rolls as well, but its use is for being an unseeable low poke for those who stand up quickly.
-, (or just if you're feeling conservative) stops rolls too, but its strength is just being a decent low to watch for with +2 on hit. Makes mids more viable.
- can be rolled to either side, but otherwise does ok grounded damage. Its strengths are its safety on block, good damage combo for people who stand and duck, as well as the strong CF capability (Breaks in 10)
-/ ~ does good grounded damage, and launches if they get up and duck. It's good in CF (Breaks in 10) and is also good in a few techtraps. Don't worry too much about its unsafety because ~ frame traps with AS if they do block it and try to punish. You should be using ~ more often than without transition. If you hit them, you can continue the combo, and if they block you can threaten with aforementioned frame trap if you so choose.
7. When you want to use a transition on block, your best bet is to go into AS (windsault) since it's the safest to avoid punishment. WC has problems evading certain verticals but it's ok SOMEtimes. WL is simply too slow to evade most counter attacks. WL can be used best when you space them to block moves at Talim's tip range, or manually when you need to go backwards or jump a low.
*The only other time WL is necessary is when you're near a ring edge and you don't want to ring yourself out with AS.
8. IMPORTANT! Unfortunately, even the camera hates Talim.
If you land a transition (ie: FC) and your opponent is hit out of the air above you, the camera may re align. This is bad because it switches your transition inputs. If you press FC you will go backwards and do BT instead. Worse yet, if you press FC , you will Windsault forward. Yes... you can ring yourself out even though you pressed the right button if the camera changes mid transition.
This is also problematic after. If you land this move and do the staple combo (, , ) sometimes the camera changes after the hits. This will switch the inputs as well causing you to do another and fly right over your opponent. I've never had this ring me out before, but I guess it could be possible. The main thing is loss of damage and pressure.
Side note: If you're a newer player or don't have knowledge of the move notations, (ie: 2A, 66A+B, kG, CH B:B, etc...) Talim's combos/techtraps, or her stances, I would suggest visiting the proper threads on 8wayrun to get familiar with them before attempting to read this. It will be necessary for understanding this guide.
Section 1: Talim's moves and their uses
As you've probably already figured out through experience, Talim is a character who's style is based around speed, combos, and evasion, (rather than heavy hitting) to create her offense. That being said, Talim is not the fastest character in the game, as characters like Setsuka and Taki make her almost look slow by comparison. She doesn't do incredible amounts of damage either, and actually has one of, if not the lowest damage outputs of the entire cast.
So why play her?
Well, she is an offensive, pressure-oriented character with lots of mixup opportunities to create fear in the opponent. Yes. Even without a super damaging move or Auto-GI, Talim can still create enough fear and hesitation with her various strings and delays to mess with an opponent's head. The general idea is to hit them enough times to bait a reaction, and once that reaction becomes predictable, you can make use of Talim's evasive moves to continue offensive pressure. Before any real strategy can be made, however, we need to look at the essential moves Talim should be using in SC4 and how they are used.
A Attacks (Horizontal attacks)
(17 dmg) - At 13 frames, this is fastest attack in her movelist. It's good for interrupting your opponents next attack, and good as a close range sidestep killer. goes into 1 of 3 enders: (36 dmg), (32 dmg), and (48 dmg). is NCC. and only combo if your opponent is in stun. (AA6BA is also a versatile stance transition, but more on this move later...) (8 dmg) - A standard fast 2A. Very important move for Talim since majority of her sidestep killers are Highs. Late TC and Gives frame advantage on hit.WR
(Rising A) (20 dmg) - Decent move. One of 2 mid options Talim has for stopping sidestep. Safe to most of the cast at -12 on block, but can be punished by a few. Otherwise, it's a mid-range 17 frame KND mid-level move. For Talim you won't get much better than that. (26 dmg) - This is a good move. 17 frame high that catches step really well, KNDs, and wallsplats. Goes into AS and WL by pressing 6 or 4 respectively on either hit or block. Combos with AS A for 40 dmg as well as tech trap in all directions. Great move to use post-GI. (Has some whiffing issues with the 2nd hit.)_ (35 dmg) - Another good move. 18 frame mid step killer that TCs, (then TJs at the end), KNDs, and wallsplats. Decent damage too. Only downside is it being unsafe on block. One of 2 mid options she has for killing step._ (29 dmg) - This move has really deceptive reach. Looks faster than the 21 frames suggest and gives +7 on hit. (Turns opponent around.) Easily her best long-range step killer. Safe too. (20 dmg) - Good move. On it's own it's safe and soul crushes in 20. (decent for a horizontal). Has the range of and kills step completely. Negative on hit, plus on CH. has two enders: , and . is NC and guarantees for 51 dmg. (More if they tech.) But is unsafe on block. can be held for a really long time. Max charge is safe, but easily interruptable. Used for those who like to GI 2nd hit. (24 dmg) - TJ horizontal high. Very good on block and seems to catch step better at advantage. NC. (Ice Wind Combo aka "IWC") (44 dmg) - Horizontal mid, canned 3 hit string. NC, but really unsafe if blocked, Has a late TC as well. Best used after sidestepping an attack as it increases damage from side hit.B Attacks (Vertical attacks)
(25 dmg) - 15 frame standard BB. Gives +4 on hit. One of Talim's core moves to set up frame traps and/or block pressure. (21 dmg) - Fast 16 frame jab move that puts Talim in BT. Gives +10 on any hit, making everything but BT A a frame trap. Very good on block as well. (14 dmg) - Early and brief TC, but is a good interrupt as it stuns on CH. has two enders: (30 dmg) and (40 dmg). The held version has multiple charge times so you can almost release the A at any time. non max charge is always NC. Downside is that the A is duckable if is blocked. / can go into WC transition. (14 dmg) - Crouching mid that hits grounded as well. Good for finishing rounds when your opponent is down. Decent range and puts you at neutral (0 frames) on hit as well. (21 dmg) - Underrated move for Talim. At 14 frames this is her fastest mid attack. Though unsafe, it almost never gets punished if used sparingly and makes for a good interrupt. (16 dmg) - Good ranged tool. Stuns on CH. has two enders: (32 dmg) and. is a great interrupt and NCC, but unfortunately can't be CH confirmed. Sometimes catches backstep really well. (15 dmg/20 if they hit the ground) - This move is the whiff punisher of choice for Talim even though it's unsafe. TCs, leads to damaging combos, and various RO options if it hits. It has a charge version, (22dmg), which makes the move safe on block at max charge. It also prolongs the TC if held down.FC
(8 dmg) - This 16 frame, TCing mid attack, is one of her best moves. This move is part of a string (FC ) that on CH can lead to good combos and her best RO options. The second B launches on any hit, but the string is not NC. The beauty of this string lies in its delay window. (more on this later)WS
BT
Jump
followup (BT
(28 dmg) - Talim's staple long range whiff punisher. TJ linear high that KNDs on any hit for combos. Great on block and whiff recovery is good. Only downsides are it's linearity and deceptively slow startup. (20 dmg) - KNDs on any hit, decent ranged mid. Best when used with the ender (or : for combo damage). and the JF version are both NC. JF version cannot be juked. (33 dmg) - Launches on any hit and goes into AS or WL transition. Hits grounded (most of the time) for good ground damage and wakeup setups. Very unsafe without transition. (20 dmg) - Great ranged TJ mid that puts her in BT, AND also can go into all of her stances. (This is the only move she has that can do that). Also has fastest transition animations since she's coming from BT. Forces crouch on block. Unsafe, but very versatile in escaping punishment. (28 dmg) - Good move for damage and CF. Forces crouch on block. This move can also go into all her stances, but has the slowest transition startup making it not as useful there. It is, however, the only attack she has that is safe without transition. Decent range too, but it has a slow startup. (30 dmg) - Possibly her best move. Long range KND attack that also serves as the core of her CF game (more on that later). This move is technically unsafe at -14, but the knockback on block basically makes it safe in open field. The real greatness of this move is it's cancel (
(24 dmg) - Fast move, gives advantage on hit with AS transition and launches on CH for combos and RO. It's unsafe and has a good chance of being hit out of transition. Still, it's a very important move for grounded hits as it stops any and all rolls. This is the move that you want to scare people into standing up into your mixups. (18 dmg) - This is the closest thing Talim has to a panic button. Easily her best interrupt, as it's a fast 17 frame move with a very low TC that ducks certain horizontal mids. KNDs on hit for combos, and launches on CH. Tracks step to one side in close. Only downside is it's unsafe on block, but usually doesn't get punished hard (or at all) if used sparingly. (TC is almost instant.)K Attacks (Kick/Body attacks)
(12 dmg) - Same speed as but longer range. Gives +2 on hit, but mostly useful in situations where doesn't reach. (18 dmg) - 16 frame ranged side kick. Makes for a decent interrupt, but unsafe on block. Gives a SHK stun on CH allowing for mixups or combo damage if they don't shake. Very linear and has bad whiff recovery. (12 dmg) - Standard 15 frame low kick. Negative on hit, and doesn't TC like it appears, but still very important for Talim. She is lacking in good lows, but as long as you're within range to throw this out, you're in good shape to start an offense. (16 dmg) - Another decent low. It's one frame better on hit than (-3 instead of -4) and better damage. Range is still a problem, but this low is sneaky and hits grounded as well. This low seems to catch step somewhat as well, much better than her circular for some reason.WS
(Rising K) (16 dmg) - This normally wouldn't be all that useful at all since it's not very damaging and the range is pretty bad, but if you do hit it, it gives you +6 on any hit. On air hit, this move floats for air combos with (if you're quick enough) or . (20 dmg) - Honestly there's not much reason at all to use or since they do the same thing for less damage. This move in general is one of her fastest TJs, and has a deceptive animation that looks like a low when it's actually a mid. Gives +2 on hit and does ok Soul Gauge damage as well._ (18 dmg) - This is Talim's anti-mixup tool and is very underrated. It TCs in the initial frames, TJs afterwards, and sidesteps all in one move. (She'll move to the side you input. is one way, is the other). It's pretty fast at 18 frames, is good on block, and leaves you at 0 on hit. It's also a good way to change your ring position quickly. Only downside is it being a high._ (33 dmg) - Her best low. It has a late TC, hits grounded, and is NC giving you +2 on hit. Does decent damage for a low. Seems to catch step ok too. The A is high so if is blocked, you can be whiff punished. Only downside is it's not too fast. It is fast enough to be effective though. (32 dmg) - Safe to most of the cast. This 19 frame move is a double mid kick that has a late TJ and KNDs on any hit. Decent range for her and strangely catches step sometimes even though it's a linear move.These are the most useful tools Talim has in pretty much every matchup. There are uses for some of the moves I didn't mention, but generally they are very situational or character specific. (You may see them pop up when I go over her matchup strategy.) Now that we know what to work with, we can move forward.
Section 2: Strengths and Weaknesses
Like any character, the key to mastering them is in understanding what they are good at as well as what they struggle with. Here's a list of the best options she has for what you want to accomplish when attacking.
Pokes: Talim doesn't shine in this area, but here's generally what I like to use:
/Interrupts: She is pretty decent for CH interrupts, and some lead to good combo damage.
/ ( on CH interrupt)/ (GREAT move if you can predict a CH with it and hold down the A appropriately)iFC
/FCRange/closing in/anti-Backstep: Unfortunately, Talim's general lack of range hurts her here, but she still has some decent ranged moves to prevent constant backstep.
(deceptive range) (Only sometimes. +1 on block, TCs throughout, and it's cancellable if opponent tries to GI you)Ringouts: This is one of her strong points.
(my favorite)most launchers ->
most launchers ->
-> AS throw/ mixup (yes they can block and mash A. train them to break B)WR
(safe option that works like ) (TC option that works like WR )WC
/WC : (Works really well for evading a linear move with your back to the edge)Critical Finish: She's not the best at this, but is far better than most think.
/WL (completely safe w/o transition, forces crouch)WC
~ or WC : (grounded only)*Her CF game will come into play more when understanding her fear-advantage game which I'll explain later.
Talim's Strengths
As mentioned before, Talim is an offensive pressure based character. What this means, is that if you can establish a fast pace within a round, your chances of winning improve dramatically. It can be very easy, (even for us Talim players), to be mesmerized by her fluid movement if used correctly. However, this doesn't mean that Talim has to always be attacking in order to establish such a pace. On paper, Talim's frame data doesn't allow her to be aggressive at all. But Talim can get around this by making use of her "fear advantage" setups.
Utilizing Fear-Advantage
Talim has a lot of multiple-hit strings, and a lot of these strings have delays and cancels in them. Looking at the frame data, most of these strings on their own, can be pretty risky either due to lack of safety, or being duckable/steppable/GI-able on reaction. So how is a Talim player to overcome this? By turning that knowledge against them.
Let's take
for example. This 4 hit string is not NC or NCC (unless in a Stun combo), and the last A can be ducked. Since we know that, a good tactic is to do only the first 3 hits of the string (). Now normally, is technically unsafe, but because the opponent has to wait to see if the 4th hit comes out, they lose the opportunity to punish you. This also applies to the delay after . You can choose whether or not to do , and by mixing it up, this can cause hesitation as well.This kind of trick gives the illusion that Talim is sitting on good frames after a lot more moves than she should be in theory. Her FC
becomes very dangerous on block because of this tactic. On it's own, FC is about -18 or so. But due to the decent delay window, this move becomes almost perfectly safe The opponent has to gamble an attack and risk being launched themselves... which, given Talim's excellent RO ability, is not a healthy risk to take.The cancel on
can oftentimes bait GIs and allow for BT combos. But the same principle applies, making this extremely slow move a semi practical GB.Lastly, her wind transitions can serve the same purpose. If you use moves like
and FC and the opponent expects you to jump over their heads, they are likely to run forward or sidestep to escape the windsault mixup. But by doing this, they are giving up an opportunity to punish you if you opted NOT to go into transition. So these moves, that are both launch punishable essentially become safe! So you want to get in the practice of using these unfinished strings and cancels to keep up the offensive.Talim's Weaknesses
About 90% of Talim's problems stem from the fact that she has just about the shortest range in the game. This makes fighting characters with good ranged spacing tools, along with good backstep and/or retreating moves, a real pain to fight against. She also has to watch for moves with good knockback on block as it really hampers her ability to punish, and sometimes creates situations where Talim has to take a defensive stance at advantage.
Knockback and Punishment
There are good number of unsafe moves from other characters, that either become insanely hard to punish consistantly, (ie: Mitsu RLC
) or become completely safe against Talim (ie: Cervy ) due to range issues. In these cases, Talim has to play defensively if pushed out too far, or she must try to force mixups instead of going for guaranteed damage. You must keep in mind that although you can't punish those moves, you still can make use of your advantage frames to get within close range, bait whiffs, or simply make them block moves for CF damage.Crossing the Divide
One of the harder things to do as a Talim player is to penetrate long-range spacing tactics. Her best attacking options for closing the gap are
and into windsault, (Pro-tip: if you can nail the Windsault : JF at will, that's probably her safest ranged option). In some cases, however, you'll want to move in without attacking. True, running in full speed isn't the best option, but taking short forward runs while stepping or even backstepping to bait whiffs helps you to get in and hopefully score some whiff punishment damage. Try to read what moves your opponent is looking for to keep you outWhat makes this hard isn't really getting through the spacing, but just how often you find yourself having to do it. A move causes knockback on block? gotta get back inside. Opponent knocks you down? gotta get back inside. Opponent breaks a throw? gotta get back inside... rinse and repeat. Good movement and defense is essential for getting through quickly and re-establishing the pace you want.
Section 3: General Strategy
Here's a few tips to keep in mind while using her.
1. What you generally want to do with Talim is to make your opponents want to attack you.
One thing Talim is very good at is whiff punishment, so if you can make people attack you predictably you can out yourself in positions to really hurt them for it.
2. Be aware at your range from your opponent at all times.
The worst place for Talim to fight at, is just outside the range of her
. This is because her low pokes, and , won't reach and her throws won't either most of the time. she does have attacks that will cover that range, but you literally lose your mixup potential completely if you stay there. Fortunately, if you're aware of this, you can easily fix this problem by sidestepping, attacking with moves that propel you forward, or even backstepping.* Yes, backstepping. Believe it or not, Talim is better off at mid to far range than she is at that inside range where
doesn't hit. , , , , and windsault are all decent options at that range. These are slow moves in close, but they do good gauge damage (except ) and have deceptive reach to them. The other important thing about being at far range is that at that range, 90% of the cast has very seeable and predictable long-range options, so it's a lot easier to play defense and move around.3. Staying with the range point; when you knock an opponent down, it's important to run up to them or use a forward jumping move to keep from losing ground.
Sometimes you can run up and throw and catch them getting up too soon, or you can run up and
should they start to roll. Unless you use her throw or command throw, you won't be right on top of your downed opponent and will have to close in again. It's easier to do this when their grounded.4.
is her best tool when you need a power mid.Although it's slow, it's animation makes it hard to GI/step or react to with anything but a guard. This move breaks in 10 and is safe, so guarding is something you almost want them to do anyway. It also becomes a force block after WC B:B so it's an alternative for landing BT B combos if you don't use the
ender. If it hits, you can get a free .5. As mentioned, Talim has a very solid RingOut game. Understand your RO options and try to RO whenever possible.
When the edge is to Talim's left,
and WR are your moves. For the right you have her throw and . Behind you have -> BT , and if you step left you can try for the side throw RO. For front ROs, you can CH fish for FC , you can use with a number of followups (my favorite and longest ranged is -> AS ) and you can threaten with a post GI mixup using 66A vs a delayed 66A. is also vital as you can use it after launchers , WL , and for ROs.*Once you have full knowledge of all your options near a ring edge, you can then build a strong edge-control game. You can use moves like
to stay in front of your opponent as they try to step away from the edge. becomes a good pressure tool here since you have the strong GI threat. Your opponent will be hesitant to throw out a fast attack if you've forced enough post-GI ROs, so you can then start using quick attacks on disadvantage (, , are all good here) or just adjust your position by stepping to avoid their linear moves, or trying to stay with them as they move around. If they do like to try to interrupt, use that GI ( AND from time to time) and take your free RO mixup.6. Talim's standard wakeup (oki) game is boiled down to a few options.
, , , , and . These moves all hit grounded, and work best when you're near your downed opponent. With
, and , you also have something of a mixup with the mids if they get up right away. -
is used to stop rolls. Its lack of safety makes it a gamble in close matches, but usually makes up for it by forcing them to stand up quickly if used enough. Good for CF too (Breaks in 10)-
can stop rolls as well, but its use is for being an unseeable low poke for those who stand up quickly.-
, (or just if you're feeling conservative) stops rolls too, but its strength is just being a decent low to watch for with +2 on hit. Makes mids more viable.-
can be rolled to either side, but otherwise does ok grounded damage. Its strengths are its safety on block, good damage combo for people who stand and duck, as well as the strong CF capability (Breaks in 10)-
/ ~ does good grounded damage, and launches if they get up and duck. It's good in CF (Breaks in 10) and is also good in a few techtraps. Don't worry too much about its unsafety because ~ frame traps with AS if they do block it and try to punish. You should be using ~ more often than without transition. If you hit them, you can continue the combo, and if they block you can threaten with aforementioned frame trap if you so choose.7. When you want to use a transition on block, your best bet is to go into AS (windsault) since it's the safest to avoid punishment. WC has problems evading certain verticals but it's ok SOMEtimes. WL is simply too slow to evade most counter attacks. WL can be used best when you space them to block moves at Talim's tip range, or manually when you need to go backwards or jump a low.
*The only other time WL is necessary is when you're near a ring edge and you don't want to ring yourself out with AS.
8. IMPORTANT! Unfortunately, even the camera hates Talim.
If you land a transition (ie: FC
) and your opponent is hit out of the air above you, the camera may re align. This is bad because it switches your transition inputs. If you press FC you will go backwards and do BT instead. Worse yet, if you press FC , you will Windsault forward. Yes... you can ring yourself out even though you pressed the right button if the camera changes mid transition.This is also problematic after
. If you land this move and do the staple combo (, , ) sometimes the camera changes after the hits. This will switch the inputs as well causing you to do another and fly right over your opponent. I've never had this ring me out before, but I guess it could be possible. The main thing is loss of damage and pressure.
