Most & Least Useful CEs?

Slade said:
4B adds up pretty quickly since it's so easy to land multiple in a row. Asta's CE also gives him big damage against -17 or worse stuff where he'd otherwise only get 66B or a throw attempt. I think it's also harder (impossible at most ranges?) to backstep Asta's CE after getting hit by 4B or 4K than it is to backstep Ivy's CE after 3K or 3A (possible at most ranges?).
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Problem with 4B (and 66K) is that if the opponent isn't ducking, they'll likely go for JG~G or sidestep (if their frames allow it), so each time you use 4B against an active defense, you risk getting launched in exchange for 20 dmg. While they do add up, it's so easy to guess wrong on, let's say, the 4th mind game and take as much damage as you dealt with the previous 4B chain. I mean, there's 4K if you're scared of JG, but even still it's not much guaranteed damage. Not like Ivy's iFC 1B for 101 dmg (1 bar) + amazing oki.

Definitely agree about the range though. I believe he also has more active frames, making it a more reliable punisher (TC recovery always felt like more of a problem for Ivy's CE in my experience).
 
HolyCarp said:
Problem with 4B (and 66K) is that if the opponent isn't ducking, they'll likely go for JG~G or sidestep (if their frames allow it), so each time you use 4B against an active defense, you risk getting launched in exchange for 20 dmg. While they do add up, it's so easy to guess wrong on, let's say, the 4th mind game and take as much damage as you dealt with the previous 4B chain. I mean, there's 4K if you're scared of JG, but even still it's not much guaranteed damage. Not like Ivy's iFC 1B for 101 dmg (1 bar) + amazing oki.

Definitely agree about the range though. I believe he also has more active frames, making it a more reliable punisher (TC recovery always felt like more of a problem for Ivy's CE in my experience).
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Good point. How the characters control the stage is a factor between the two CEs as well. Moves like 44A and FC 3K give Astaroth a natural tendency to push his opponents to the extremities of each stage, whereas Ivy is better suited toward being in a center position and isn't particularly good at driving people out of it even if it were desirable for her. The angle changes on 214B, 3B, B+G, and 6B8's AT make it more difficult for her opponents to sustain a push in any particular direction.

The CEs are affected not only because Astaroth's has wall combo and RO ability, but also because like any other move they're more difficult to evade when walls and edges obstruct potential escape routes. Astaroth even gets wall combos off of TJs when he throws with the right button (although admittedly it's the opposite of the instant death throw button that he should be using near walls), so the risk for even that method of evasion is amplified by the presence of walls and edges.

The tradeoff is that Astaroth is at more of a risk of being wall comboed himself on a whiff.
 
Yoshi's CE is also one of his only reliable and damaging step catchers lol, read or not. I'm about to start a petition on change.org
 
linkorz said:
66G cancel only works on backstep.
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I'm pretty sure it works for all step. I know almost certainly that at least the 6G cancel which negates step counters works for sidestep as well as backstep, and blocking CEs is an extension of that bug.
 
YINKAMIYOUKAI said:
I would just like to point out that the mixup from Viola´s CE is reactable
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1K/BB is not reactable. Neither is throw/mid. 1K/4B might be but I haven't run any trials to test it and it seems unlikely. The low i20s are dubious (see aPat 1A:A:A) and i18 is certainly not reactable. And like I said, it's not just "the mixup" from Viola's CE, it's the mixups.
 
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YINKAMIYOUKAI said:
I´m not reacting to the mids, but to the low
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I mentioned the mids because it wouldn't be a mixup if it were possible to just block low and stand up to block them on reaction.

Anyway, the low isn't reactable. I can see why one might get the impression that it is, though. Both 6B+K and her CE telegraph the incoming mixup, which gives the defending player's brain more time to predict how to respond.

To see if it's truly reactable, you could go into training mode and set the dummy to randomly alternate between 4B and 1K and see how many you are and aren't able to block on reaction. It'll most likely end up being around 50%.
 
It´s not easy but I´ve definitely just stood up blocking and reacted to the low multiple times
 
I hate Astaroth's and Ivy's CE, it happens and I press crouch but it never works. other CE's I can easily block or crouch...
 
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