Looking And Waiting For Something Special?

Update: Dec 25 - Patience finally pays off?

SC is back! Get ready, fans! http://twitpic.com/3j16ui

Well I'm sure most of you were worried, as all the surprises we've seen so far have been Tekken related! But you were promised something spectacular, and now you finally get what you've been waiting for... Daishi Odashima, Lead designer for the Soulcalibur series has just opened up his own twitter!

Odashima-san used to be a tournament player in Japan back in the Soulcalibur 1 days! Since he's the new director of all things Soulcalibur at Namco, and by his own admission, has the final say on his team; you should follow him on twitter. Merry Christmas everyone?

I say again!! The day has finally come when I can tell you all about it. Soul Calibur is BACK !!

Update: Dec 23 - Katsuhiro Harada recently unveiled a new trailer and character for Tekken Tag Tournament 2. He also promises that more surprises are on the way:

Thanks for tons of comment !! OK next !!
I have something new to tweet about tomorrow night. so get ready!
(Not a footage. But important)

Update: Dec 21 - from Katsuhiro Harada's twitter:

Sorry guys I'm so busy now.
However, I want to show you something within the course of a few days...

Original Post - Namco-Bandai's Katsuhiro Harada has been having a lot of fun with his twitter account lately; their community manager FilthieRich is no different:

Looking and waiting for something special?
Make sure to continue following and tell your friends to stay tuned ....

What could this cryptic message possibly mean? Well that I couldn't really tell you. All I can say is that Namco-Bandai is probably planning some big surprises for the holiday, and you should pay attention to the twitter feeds. Just look at that face... you know he's up to no good!

We'll do our best to keep you updated with any relevant information here on 8WayRun.

 

You know that I am loyal to her and have tried the damndest of whatever abilities I have at the time to TRY and make her as effective as I can. I could've dropped this bitch a long time ago; but it completely goes against my principles. Because I know that the minute I decide to pick a better character, it means that in future SC games or any other fighting game I decide to pick up, I will never be able to pick my favorite character. I want to use them whether they are are good or not. Picking a character based only on tier status and options is a lure that I, personally, do not want to get caught up in.

That sounds almost like a true FG warrior statemant. lol

But yeah, I respect always a mentality like this.

But that aside, SCV Mina should be "funnier/better" than her SCIV incarnation. I do hope so.

 

Double half-circles can't be done quickly, but would be a sensible enough motion that people could learn it easily.

Play SSF4: AE, you'll then retract that statement. :)

 

Often I would agree with the philosophy, but the motions do indeed need to force a delay. Double circles can still be done quicker and would open the move to spamming still. The move is too powerful if it wad accessible all the time, but the needed prep limits how quickly you can do it and what situations.

While the motion is very hard to learn, once you get it down you're good. I struggled with it immensely and can now do it consistently on pad and stick without any telegraph or set up, I also wouldn't consider myself to have high dexterity. There's a lot of ways to learn this move slowly and precisely till you can get to a point you can do it instantly.

Once you get it down, I'm sure you can spam it just as easily as a double half-circle. It would be easier for people to learn the double half-circle, yet I wouldn't say the motion is less "long".

You are pretty much explaining the argument why the move notation needs to be changed with those comments.

"Double circles can still be done quicker and would open the move to spamming still." and "can now do it consistently on pad and stick without any telegraph or set up" to me are contradictory statements. If you can do it consistently without any telegraph or setup, you can effectively spam it yourself. It may have taken you plenty of work, and I'm sure you would be a little frustrated if that work got marginalized (and given how Ivy changes as much as Athena's outfit in KOF, Ivy players have a right to complain) , but this would make more people able to do the move period, which would encourage more Ivys, without overpowering Ivy. If for some reason it does overpower, you can balance Ivy plenty of other ways. Bad design is bad design, no matter how iconic.

This is not a criticism of you, Ivy, or your gameplay, just the logic behind your defense of the motion.

 

I once learned that only a manipulator can be influenced by another manipulator. Perhaps in your case, your strategy doesn't involve you having to condition the opponent to act a certain way. Perhaps instead you let them condition themselves by assuming whatever they want about you. Either way, as long as their understanding of your intentions are false, then you can get inside that person's head for matches to come.

About your idea on fear, I believe you are referring to the loss of control experienced in a match. As it is, people do all kinds of stuff when put under pressure. But my message is that when you can outsmart someone for having the wrong idea about your intent altogether, then now it's about whether or not they actually know your mind. Therefore, fear is unrelated.

@Vincent - Oh I know all about the elitist thing. There was no offense taken.

You're pretty much right, especially on the pressure thing. But it seems that whenever people are put under pressure they fall back on something they believe to be safest. (Some get panicky and start throwing out quicker moves, some step/backstep more, evasive moves, GI, some turtle up harder.) To me, outsmarting them would be to how to stop what they like to do in such situations. Basically adaptation. Maybe instead of just fear, I should say respect. It's not just about being scared of an option, just that you know it's there and look for it.

Some say "I don't wanna be thrown" so they attack like a wild man or try to evade with something. Some don't wanna have to keep blocking so they will move or throw out GIs. They are fearing/respecting one part of the pressure more than others, and once you realize that, you can adapt and let them play into your hands. So I guess what you see as a mindgame, I just look at as adaptation.

Also as a Talim main, especially, I had to learn the art of "fear-advantage", which are basically pseudo frame traps. Working strings/delays/cancels to cause unsafe options to go unpunished. This is her pressure game. I can make -5 look like +3 or -23 look like neutral, because my opponents will fear/respect that I could finish the string. Or that I might cancel or delay. This is the fear I'm talking about. It never fails to cause hesitation and forces strong "mindgames" that wouldn't really work if the person just ignored the potential danger they could be in. Theoretically, someone can punish nearly every blocked Talim move. But they likely won't if they have any real awareness of this.

Mind games are especially strong when you have advantage, if I hit you with a move that is lets say +1, and aim to further my offense. You instead choose to attack, this throws me off because I didn't expect you to ignore the frames. However, I can put you in a similar situation, block and see if you will attack again. This opens up the gates of hell for you.

@KingAce - You're absolutely right. This is what I would do as well if faced with the situation. But I would say that's more about adaptation than a mind game. You were thrown off by your opponent's lack of fear/respect of your frames in that case, so next time you took that into consideration, and adapted by frame trapping them.

Mitsu 2KB/3B was just a default mixup. You can apply the concept to different things. How often a person steps vs not stepping, how often they block low, how often they finish the round with a particular setup, etc. Again, as a Talim main, I can make people (those who are aware and intelligent players) believe she is at +frames when she isn't by using such fear to my advantage.

@BlackStar - Thanks. didn't see your post at first, but yeah maybe this clears up my point to you as well.

 

Once you get it down, I'm sure you can spam it just as easily as a double half-circle. It would be easier for people to learn the double half-circle, yet I wouldn't say the motion is less "long".

You are pretty much explaining the argument why the move notation needs to be changed with those comments.

"Double circles can still be done quicker and would open the move to spamming still." and "can now do it consistently on pad and stick without any telegraph or set up" to me are contradictory statements. If you can do it consistently without any telegraph or setup, you can effectively spam it yourself. It may have taken you plenty of work, and I'm sure you would be a little frustrated if that work got marginalized (and given how Ivy changes as much as Athena's outfit in KOF, Ivy players have a right to complain) , but this would make more people able to do the move period, which would encourage more Ivys, without overpowering Ivy. If for some reason it does overpower, you can balance Ivy plenty of other ways. Bad design is bad design, no matter how iconic.

This is not a criticism of you, Ivy, or your gameplay, just the logic behind your defense of the motion.

Well, maybe. Still as much as I'm normally on your side about these things, Ivy's command grab notations are kind of iconic to the character. As well in theory one could execute perfectly and just run around with the best throw in the game wildly, but even top level players must mentally anticipate the use due to the notation, where Astaroth's command grabs are second nature since its one movement. While I agree with your logic, in my experience, after finally learning it I don't feel the skill cap to execute is as hard as it seemed. Once that motion is in muscle memory you're solid. However...I would appreciate a motion that doesn't cause mt to telegraph audibly on my arcade stick.

So tough call. I appreciate the novelty of the difficulty, but it does turn some players off from the character. Only thing is if you did an easier notation there would never be a need for A+G (See: Astaroth and non-command grabs)

 

ZeroEffect quote:
But it seems that whenever people are put under pressure they fall back on something they believe to be safest. (Some get panicky and start throwing out quicker moves, some step/backstep more, evasive moves, GI, some turtle up harder.) To me, outsmarting them would be to how to stop what they like to do in such situations. Basically adaptation. Maybe instead of just fear, I should say respect. It's not just about being scared of an option, just that you know it's there and look for it.

--- --- ---

Let me put this a little differently. If your method is indirect, and your goal is to throw the opponent, then you may condition that player by having them focus on some other move first before attempting to throw. On the other hand, if your method is direct, and your goal is to throw the opponent, then you will simply go ahead and try to throw that person without any sort of setup.

This distinction is important to note because the straightforward player proves that it isn't necessary to instill fear or respect in his opponent. The straightforward player doesn't need to care how you respond to him. All he cares about is seeing if you're willing to accept the fact he wants to throw you at certain moments. If not, then he probably won't have much fun constantly interrupting you in place of that just to win the match, since you're not willing to deal with the mixup position.

Also, when the opponent knows you're going for a mixup at a particular time, they won't necessarily attack out of fear. It could just be they prefer not to punish on reaction, so instead they attempt to interrupt you in whichever way possible.

Finally, you said you like to outsmart the opponent or adapt to them during their panicky reactions. But the thing is, these are their instinctive and subconscious reactions to certain situations. Playing a mind game on subconscious thoughts isn't really a mind game as far as I'm concerned. That's why I talked about outsmarting on what the opponent is consciously aware of.

 

@KingAce - You're absolutely right. This is what I would do as well if faced with the situation. But I would say that's more about adaptation than a mind game. You were thrown off by your opponent's lack of fear/respect of your frames in that case, so next time you took that into consideration, and adapted by frame trapping them.

Mitsu 2KB/3B was just a default mixup. You can apply the concept to different things. How often a person steps vs not stepping, how often they block low, how often they finish the round with a particular setup, etc. Again, as a Talim main, I can make people (those who are aware and intelligent players) believe she is at +frames when she isn't by using such fear to my advantage.

But that's what makes it a mind game. Adaptation is an evolving mind game in fighting games, you make adjustments again and again. This is especially true for low tier characters. Example; Zas's 3AB is unsafe on block. Many times I tried just doing 3A, which is unsafe but won't get punished because the opponent's brain is anticipated the B. I have had people attack me after 3A on block, simply because they don't know shit. Now you could attempt to punish 3A next instance, but remember the extra B can ring you out.

BG, one of strongest tools I had when playing with zas, was that feint. Canceling his B, then throwing or doing a mid...it made people hesitant but other times they would attack, either way I was safe, because I would either be blocking or attacking.

You really can't play with out fear, even if you don't fear, you must be patient, or cautious, or hesitant, because taking damage eventually adds up to pressure. What you're trying to avoid isn't taking damage, or getting ringed out, you're trying to avoid being pressured. And I don't have to hurt you to pressure you. You would have to be drunk.

Amy doesn't win because she does a lot damage. Amy players beat you, because eventually she breaks your mental defenses, she wears you down and you give into the pressure. Same with hilde, if you get the raft or small island stage, the Hilde player already has a mental advantage. You can ignore it, and you stand a stronger chance of making the correct decisions, but how long can you keep that up? First to 10 matches explain the evolution of adapting mind games very well. The most successful players are always mentally strong, however even they are only human.

 

You guys realise that both this cover art, and the Ezio one I posted earlier aren't real... right?

They were made by Eggboy13 and posted on VGBoxArt.com. If you look at both this art and the one posted before, you can see the watermarks in the bottom corners.

 

Diggin the green logo, but the sword and "V" are fuckin it up. I'm ok with guest characters, but not when they're console exclusive. I liked Link but I'd be deterred from ever using him because of that reason.

 

I was just bored and decided to randomly search for "Soul Calibur 5" on google and then i found a forum that talked about a new SC being in the works. First i was like "Psss... yeah right" but they actully had proof and linked the shit to twitter. When i saw the announcement i was all like *tear of happiness*

 

y did it have to be wii

 

What are you talking about?

 

y did it have to be wii

That picture is a fake mock up.

 

ya and if soul calibur was on wii thats bad

 

What would be so bad about that? Just because it's the Wii?

 

A Wii exclusive would be terrible. A Wii version would be alright, though no one would play it due to friend codes.

 

Once you get it down, I'm sure you can spam it just as easily as a double half-circle. It would be easier for people to learn the double half-circle, yet I wouldn't say the motion is less "long".

You are pretty much explaining the argument why the move notation needs to be changed with those comments.

"Double circles can still be done quicker and would open the move to spamming still." and "can now do it consistently on pad and stick without any telegraph or set up" to me are contradictory statements. If you can do it consistently without any telegraph or setup, you can effectively spam it yourself. It may have taken you plenty of work, and I'm sure you would be a little frustrated if that work got marginalized (and given how Ivy changes as much as Athena's outfit in KOF, Ivy players have a right to complain) , but this would make more people able to do the move period, which would encourage more Ivys, without overpowering Ivy. If for some reason it does overpower, you can balance Ivy plenty of other ways. Bad design is bad design, no matter how iconic.

This is not a criticism of you, Ivy, or your gameplay, just the logic behind your defense of the motion.

I agree with this. I think most of they people who will buy SC5 will be at an intermediate (i.e. people who like SC and fighting games in general, but not pro). They don't want a game where any old button basher can pull off all the best moves, but want to be able to do all the moves themselves consistently with a bit of practice.

In SC2 on the GC, I could pull off SS/CS consistently, but would have to buffer it into moves to avoid the telltale twich. However, I think with the more difficult input and reduced window, I find it difficult to pull them off consistently enough on the PS3 pad, which less fun and more frustrating.

If a move is too powerful, they can find other ways to either make it less powerful, or limit the situations you can use it in so that it requires a lot of setup. I just don't think that making the input really difficult is the best way to balance fighting games. Although I guess it's one of those things where you're never going to please everybody.

 

A Wii exclusive would be terrible. A Wii version would be alright, though no one would play it due to friend codes.

I mean just look at poor tvc, sick game that pretty much no one plays anymore. But the announcement of a new SC is very welcome, it was always my favorite fighter, and I look forward to actually learning how to play the new one. Hopefully they step their game up though, this ain't 08 where it was pretty much the only fighting game on the market.

 

New Fan Art from Eggboy13!

 

lol that's an awesome mockup
ezio ftw