Ivy BD Changes

Davo87

Davo87

[09] Warrior
Updates: Credit to Ring for getting the game, covering all unsolved mysteries. And Eli, SU for the early findings. The list is virtually close to complete. Pls discuss!


+ The movement is the same in all stances except for SE.

+ CS/SS does 90dmg from the back. iCS is 109 dmg from the back (yes, it's not a typo) The window for command throws is very big, perhaps even larger than in SC3. You can input the directions slowly.

+ K in all stances is +3 on hit

+ 2K does the same damage in all stances (12dmg). SC4: SW 2K - 12, CL/WP 2K - 9.

+ CL/WP 3K has much more range now.

- A+B+K is accesable from every stance. It is one of the worst A+B+K moves in the game, if not the worst. It has no tracking at all. It's very slow (i42, the slowest A+B+K in the game) and vertical, does not hit grounded opponent, does not give anything guaranteed on hit. It's i16 punishable.

- CL or WP 7/8/9gB gone.

- CL -> SE switch is gone.

- Stance shift can no longer be held. It must be pressed. Meaning no more start in WP or SW instantly at the start of the match. You must time your press or mash to get the earliest timing which means there is a chance to miss ur stance switch while doing a move.

- Stance Lock [A] hold no longer possible in WP and CL which means its impossible to stay in respective stances.

- Unblockable glitches are gone. This applies to no flame glitches SW A+B, SW 3B+K and WP 6[A+B] and also including the half-charge SW [A+B].


Here are most noticable changes for every stance found so far:

SW

+ CH SW 1KB does 51 dmg (+5)
+ WS B launches airborne opponent
+ On CH, WS B launches a little higher, CL 4B is connectable with 236BB for 90dmg (it's still inconsistent)
+ 6B8 does 5 damage more in combos
+ 66A has a hidden version, 66A+K which stuns opponent on CH like in SC4.
+ 2A+K is now -14 at close range.

- 1K has lesser range and it's i15 now. Also 1KBK is negative on hit.
- 8B+K,K and 6B8K are negative on hit
- A+B does 32dmg (-25), [A+B] does 58 (-20). The charged version can also be sidestepped in any direction easily.
- 214K does less damage in combos. It's still 10 dmg on standing opponent and negative on hit.

SW damage differences SC4->SC:BD

AA - 20 (-2)
2A - 10 (-2)
1A - 19 (+4)
BB - 28 (-4)
3B - 18 (-4)
2B - 16 (-2)
FC B - 18 (+2)
A+B - 32 (-25)
[A+B] - 58 (-20)
2A+B - 25 (-5)
66A - 24 (-6)
22_88B - 19 (-3)

CL

+ BB is Natural Combo (30dmg) + frames on hit
+ AA is +5 on NH
+ WS AA becomes NC at tip and far range.
+ 66BA+K spins opponent on CH, goes to Whip
+ 66B+K looks like SW 3B, it's +4~5 and goes to SW
+ 6A,A+K knocks down on CH
+ 1B,B+K gives a wallsplat in combos. It also cannot be air controlled after launchers.

- CL 214B doesn't force crouch on block and doesn't bounce stunned opponent. It also lost its tracking entirely.
- NH CL 3B, 236BB is no longer a combo. It's not even listed in move list anymore, it's now "CL 3B, 1BB+K" (a shitty combo that does 47dmg). CL 3B, SW 6B8 still works, 60 dmg, but only at close range, because 3B doesn't launch high enough.
- CL 1B,B+K does not push at all on block =( it's still safe and positive on hit, but the move far worse. Gives a shakable sit down stun in combos. It also does 1 dmg less than in SC4. It also ends in SW, which is probably why they removed pushback.

CL damage differences SC4->SC:BD

CH 6A,K - 45 (+8)
FC A - 12 (+3)
BB - 30 (NC)
1B,B+K - 30 (-1)
236BB - 37 (+1)
FC B - 18 (+2)
A+B,A - 23 (-6)
A+B,A+K - 25 (-5)

WP

+ AA is +2 on hit
+ BB is Natural Combo (30dmg) + frames on hit
+ 4B,B+K gives a weird spin stun on CH, with guaranteed followups.
+ FC 3B~A+B_[A+B] launches everytime. I checked it, and on hit A+B cannot be interrupted! This is the best change in WP so far.
+ 2B is +1 on hit. Also, it does 16 dmg (+2), and FC 2B does 20 (+6)
+ WP 4A knocks down on CH, CL 236BB is guaranteed for a total of 55dmg (range dependant). It also RO's and wall splats on CH.
+ WP 6AA received both a buff and a nerf. The good part is that it wall splats on CH often now (it rarely happens in SC4), and near wall CL 236BB is easily connectable. The bad part is, CH 6A not +2 on CH anymore. It's more like -10 now. Also, WP 2B+K does not relaunch anymore after CH WP 6AA.

- CH 3A combos only at mid to far range. It's possible to connect CL AA, CL A,A+K, CL/WP K and CL 2A. The move is no longer i16.
- 66A+B damage is now 43 (-16). Does more damage in combos.
- 44A+B damage is now 36 (-10). WP 44A+B, 44A+B combo is now 63 dmg (-18)
- 6A, B+K glitch is removed. Also they removed WP 6[A+B]~ glitch.
- 66B range is drasticaly reduced. It does not offer much on hit now.
- 6B+K must go back into CL.
- 1/2/3B+K must go back into CL.
- WP 4A+B,B is not NC any longer. It's not even NCC. The B part is only guaranteed on aGI near wall/edge.

WP damage differences SC4->SC:BD

AA - 16 (-2)
CH 1AA - 20 (-7)
FC A - 10 (+2)
BB - 28 (NC)
2B - 16 (+2)
FC B - 20 (+6)
22_88B - 17 (-8)
66A+B - 43 (-17)
44A+B - 36 (-10)
1_2_3B+K - 20/20/20 (+10/+5/-5)

CL/WP/SW damage differences SC4->SC:BD

FC K - 14 (+2)
K - 14 (+1)
CL/WP 9B - 32 (-8)

SE

+ B:6B:4B:6B:4B is now 69dmg. CL 2B is a guaranteed followup for 80 dmg (character dependant)

- BBB does 33dmg (-3). CL 2B is a guaranteed followup for 44 dmg.
- A236A does 42 dmg (-11) as if wasn't bad enough in SC4 -_- It still is shakable, and unsafe on hit.
- SE completely lost the tracking of every move, including BBB and B:6B:4B:6B:4B.

COMBOS

  • New combos
CH WP 4B,B+K, CL 22_88B - 53
CH WP 4B,B+K, CL 9B - 56
CH WP 4A, CL 236BB - 55
CH WP 6AA, CL 236BB (near wall only) - 83
WP 66B, CL 3B, CL 236BB - 71
CH SW 3B, iWS B, 6B8 - 74*

* iWS B combos still need more testing.

  • CL Natural Combos (NC)
AA - 20
BB - 30 (new)
44BB - 30
1B,B+K - 30 (-1)
236BB - 37 (+1)
214B_ - 31
A+B,A - 23 (-6)
A+B,A+K - 25 (-5)
33B(mash) - 35
WS A+B - 36
WS AA - 51

  • CL Natural Combos on Counter Hit (NCC)
A,A+K - 19
6AK - 45 (+7)
6A+K - 54
4B - 38
4B,A+K - 24
66BA - 41
WS AA -54
1A - 32

  • CL guaranteed combos on NH
3B, SW 6B8 - 60 (+5)
44BB+K, 6B8 - 66 (+5)
4A, 236BB - 58 (+2)
A+BA+K, WP 66A+B - 66 (+3)
A+BA+K, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 69 (+12)
A+BA+K, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 71 (+16)
33B(mash), SW 9B - 50
66A, SW 9B - 44
22_88K, SW 2B - 36

  • CL guaranteed combos on CH
1A, 4B+K, SW 214K - 77 (-8)
1A, 4B, 236BB - 83 (+4)
3A, SW 214K - 45 (-12)
WS AA, SW 2_3B+K - 71

  • CL wall combos
3B (wall), WP 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 105 (+24)
4A (wall/max range), WP 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 104 (new)
CH 1A (wall), WP 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 111 (new)
66K (wall), WP 3, SE K (wall), SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 130 (+30)

  • SW Natural Combos
AA - 20 (-2)
BB - 28 (-4)
8B+K,K - 25
6B8K - 35
214K - 10
WS A+B - 26

  • SW Natural Combos on Counter Hit (NCC)
6 - 33
1KB - 51 (+5)

  • SW guaranteed combos on NH
22_88B, 214K - 43 (-16)
22_88B, CL 236BB - 53 (+3)
22_88B, 6B8 - 54 (+2)
22_88K, 214K - 37 (-10)
2A+K, 214K - 43 (-10)
WS B, BT A+B - 58 (+3)
WS B, 6B8 - 65 (+5)
44B, 66K, 2A+B - 55
44B, 66K, CL 236BB - 64 (+6)
44B, 1KB - 61 (+8)
1_2_3B+K, 1_2_3B+K - 52~53
3B+K, 44K - 61
2B+K, CL 236BB - 64 (+3)
66B, 9B - 52

  • SW guaranteed combos on CH
44A, CL 4B, WP 66A+B - 108 (+8)
1A, CL A,A+K - 58 (+8)
3B, CL 4B, SW 214K - 67 (-13)
3B, CL 4B, 236BB - 72 (-1)
66A+K, CL 236BB - 60
9B, 214K - 49 (-10)
9B, CL 236BB - 56 (+4)

  • SW wall combos
A+B (wall), 214K - 63 (- 41)
[A+B] (wall), 214K - 97 (-33)
66B (wall), 66A+K, CL 236BB - 95 (new)
66A (wall), 1KB - 70 (+3)
66B (wall), 66A, 1KB - 97 +
22_88B (wall), CL 1B,B+K (wall), CL A+B,A+K, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 105 (new)
66B (wall), CL 1B,B+K (wall), CL A+B,A+K, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 125 (new)

  • WP Natural Combos
AA - 16 (-2)
BB - 30 (new)
4A+B,B - 25 (-10)
1B - 31
4B - 20
4B,B+K - 35
A+B -40
6A+B_[A+B] - 20/25
6bA+B - 42
44BB - 41
44A+B~A+B - 36 (-20)
66A+B - 43 (-16)
WS BB - 36
WS A+B - 36

  • WP Natural Combos on Counter Hit (NCC)
6AA - 47
6A,B+K - 38
1AA - 20 (-7 o_O)
6B+K2_8 - 45
FC 3~A+B - 47
1_2_3B+K - 34/34/29 (+6/+1/-16)

  • WP guaranteed combos on NH
1B, 2B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 80 (+10)
1B, 2B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 83 (+15)
22_88B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 62 (-18)
22_88B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 67 (-5)
22_88K, 2B - 36
WS B, 6K - 34
WS BB, CL 236BB - 63 (+7)
WS BB, CL 6A+K - 67 (+8)
66A+B, SW 6B8 - 70 (-9)
44B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 64 (+8)
3, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 54 (+12)
66B, CL 1B,B+K - 50 (+3, but -15 as a whole combo)
44[A], SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 60 (+12)

  • WP guaranteed combos on CH
3A, CL A,A+K - 54 (+3)
3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 80 (+11)
3, SE 66K, SW 1KB - 80 (+11)
3, SE 4B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 80 (+19)
FC 3~A+B, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 91 (+22)

  • WP wall combos
WS B (wall), 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B JF - 94 (+24)
6B (wall), 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 76 (+16)
44K (wall), 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 75 (+15)
CH 4K (wall), 3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 120 (+30)
CH 4A (wall), 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 80 (new)
WP 66B, CL1B,B+K (wall), CL A+B,A+K, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 111dmg (new)

  • SE Natural Combos
BBB - 33 (-3)
B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 69 (+12)

  • SE Natural Combos on Counter Hit (NCC)
4_5_6B+K - 34/34/29 (+6/+1/-16)
A236A - 43 (-10)

  • SE guaranteed combos on CH
66K, SW 1KB - 60 (+7)
3B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 63

  • SE wall combos
SE 66K (wall) SW 1KB - 61 (+12)
SE K (wall), SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 103 (+31)
SE BBB (wall), CL 236BB - 68
SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B (wall), CL 2B - 89 (new)
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

Thanks for the info. It's a good idea to start such thread here.

You can also add to the list, that CH SW 66A doesn't stun opponent, so the old 70dmg combo is gone.

Poor WP 3A. So now on CH it gives like +14 or +15, which means we will not get any guaranteed damage when it hits at tip range. In PS3/360 version, that combo CH WP3A-> CLA,A+K is very inconsistent (range and character depentent) due to fall stun. Lets hope they at least buffed the damage (approx 60dmg would be ok)

About stance shifting - its still possible to change stances during move animations? Maybe now you will have to mash it lol.

I haven't played the game yet but Im sure we can except: SW A+B ub gone or nerfed, cl214b worse edave/tracking, SW1K unsafe/negative on hit, iCS smaller range etc

Ah here we go again.
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

About stance shifting - its still possible to change stances during move animations? Maybe now you will have to mash it lol.
Click to expand...

Yup, mash. Say if u want to switch from WP to SW quickly during WP 66A+B u have to mash or know the timing. It makes her stance cooldown a lot harder to be efficient to use. :(
And it also means u cannot bypass the stance change animation if u dont do a move. U cant hold G and bypass. If u mash at the start, it means u will have to go thru the stance animation. Its inconvenient, reduces her early game options. Why Namco? Why go backwards?
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

shame to hear about WP 3A. CLA,A+K is so inconsistent. Ugh.
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

cl a,a+k is guranteed bcos the stun is changed. It just means wp 3a cant combo at tip range. As long as CL A hits, A+K will connect bcos it has long reach.
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

I suppose you didn't check SE? I wonder if they made any changes at all.
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

I browsed thru the movelist of SE so far nothing special... SE B series damage still hasnt changed much.
Ya, didnt have time to test frames. The training options menu is now broken down into 3 separate menus just to look less clunkier, but its harder to navigate imo. There was only one psp, so no versus to test things.

My final rant: CH WP 3A without tech = 65 dmg but teched = 83dmg. Its like asta, if u try to tech, his 22B hurt more. So dont try to tech. Why totally change the stun instead of nerfing the dmg? Altho Ring, probably u agree this move is too awesome to stay the way it is too. SC4 WP 3A is so much cooler than SC3, why make it back to SC3 AE? :'(
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

Fuckin christ. no hold shifting?!? How the fuck am I gonna CL iCS reasonably?!? FUCK YOU NAMCO! You fucking fucks! i'm gonna get fucked up inputs all day with this garbage.

Arg...I mean shit...I can't tell you how pissed that makes me.

They better give Ivy something to make up for this. CL 214 maybe not glitches on tracking and is safe on hit?!? Fix all the completely useless moves like CL 1A and CL 4A+B. I have a bad feeling she is gonna be handled horribly in this new game.

I also don't like the CF move idea. More than likely it's avoidable so I can't choose the option I want to break it. However it does fix the aggravating issue of missing it by being stuck in the next move buffer. i'll have to see how good the CF move is.

I'm glad with the Hilde nerf...but these Ivy nerfs make no sense. I can see her getting some but these are fuckin stupid. They don't need to make her harder to use. Bad enough we have to iCS on that "analog" thingy.
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

I already check that "analog" thing and my first impression is that it will be at least 2x harder to pull of CS on it. I'm gonna use d-pad on PSP I guess.

That stance shift tweak is there probably because we found a way to bypass her limitations (lows from CL/ CS/SS from CL etc)
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

Broken Destiny is probably going to be a big joke in terms of competitive play anyway, and there's really no way to tell if they're going to patch the Broken Destiny changes into SC4 anyway. I really see no reason to sweat at this point in time.
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

still... :/

NAMCO has a new reputation of shooting themselves in the foot when they have a chance to redeem themselves or fix something. We're already a lil jealous at Tekken getting all the good fixes and SC getting crap. I'm not even gonna buy this game (no PSP), but I'm wacthing it close to see how they intend to change SC.
 
broken destiny Ivy changes: Beta not demo.

Hopefully she ain't that bad.

One of the things I really like about Ivy in SC4 is her freedom and somewhat unpredictability in any situation.

This will make her stiff...which in turn not that fun and maybe I end up dropping her.
Flush.gif


But let me test her first before I call the butcherers on Project Soul.
piss2.gif
 
[BD] Ivy BD Changes

Davo, I changed the title so it can now match the other BD threads.

We should get new Ivy info anytime now, but I'm not going to lie.... I'm seriously concerned about BD Ivy. The videos provided by Namco does now show any buffs at all, nerfs only. Whole other characers actually gained some really disturbing damage buffs, like Hilde: C2B combo from 45 to almost 90! I have no words for this..
 
[BD] Ivy BD Changes

I have to agree Ring. I don't know if u saw my post in the tier thread but that is the most disgusting buff I have ever seen in a game. Hilde should be insta-banned no question.

C3B = 130
C2B = 86
 
[BD] Ivy BD Changes

Yeah, is this the price for nefring her RO? I don't know what Namco is thinking. Aside from this insane damage buff, it doesn't look like she lost a lot of her RO potential. RO after C2B seems to be reduced, but it's not a significant change. Probably she still will be able to RO from almost half screen range with it.

But let's wait until the game is out. Don't wanna make any preliminary judgements.

Anyway, the only available videos with BD Ivy at the moment:

Part 1:
Part 2:

Damage looks pretty much the same as in SC4. The only new things is that A+B+K new GC move, and CH SW 66A (does not stun on CH now) It's also funny to see, how the player struggles with iCS at the end.
 
[BD] Ivy BD Changes

Is iCS the same commands? Is tapping to stance shift a bitch or pretty easy? My fear is always missing it because I do it before the cooldown and I fear going from SW - WP on combos and long moves is gonna be a bitch now since you have to count. It's bad enough we have to hold things down to cancel the shift, constantly shift, etc etc...and now this? Shit what's next...she becomes JF reliant as well? There was no purpose to this.

on that topic has 5JF been buffed...as in is it safe and worth the reward...cuz right now I just dont see the point in risking it unless your 90% on getting it and even then it's still unsafe for the effort and barely extra dmg on combo.
 
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