Frame Data and You: A laymans guide.

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IdleMind

IdleMind

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[notice]For anyone reading this from 2012 onward, this applied to SCIV and previous games. The information in this post does not necessarily reflect information that can be applied to SCV.

- Heaton[/notice]

Inspired by boredom and genver.

Alot of you have probably seen terms that are related on the forums, like i25, or -15 ect, ect. Some of you probably have even looked into the frame data of such a thing on the wiki, and been somewhat dumbfounded, or have a lack of understanding as to the point of such a thing is. This thread is here to explain that.

Frame Data Use #1: Punishing

Some of you may be familiar with the concept of punishing, blocking a move then retaliating in such a way that your opponent can't block in return. Frame data can expand upon that understanding.

Lets take an sitational example.

Cassandra vs Mitsurugi

Cassandra 236B's and Mitsurugi blocks it. Mitsurugi BB's Cassandra as a punish.
This is a fairly standard scenario, but lets look under the hood of the frame data and see how it all works.

Cass 236B is -19 on GRD, which means its -19 frames where she cannot block on guard.
Mitsurugi is i17 to IMP, which means it takes 17 frames from the time you hit B for the first B to hit. The second B always hits when the first one does because its NC, which means its Natural Combo.

Using frame data, we can also see that by the frames, Mitsurugi could also have also punished with 3B which is i18 IMP and launches which gives you a combo, which is more damage than a BB alone.

Using the frame data, we can see how to make the most of a punishment situation.

Frame Data Use #2: Safe-Step Situations

Sidestepping is an important defense aspect in Soul Calibur, used properly it can defeat mixups and get you out of tight spots. A key factor in sidestepping, is it takes a certain amount of frames to activate (11). Understanding frame data can help you understand situations in which you can and cannot step effectively should you expect a vertical move from your opponent.

Heres another Situational Example

Cassandra vs Mitsurugi again.

Mitsurugi hits Cassandra with BB. BB gives +4 ADV on hit. Mitsurugi opts to BB again and Cassandra decides to Step.
Step takes 11 frames to activate, +4 more frames for the advantage that make the total time until she begins stepping 15 frames. This is short of the i17 frame of the first B of BB, allowing Cassandra to step safely and most likely avoid the attack.

Note that different characters have different lengths to their step, and their hitboxes are different sizes. In the above example, Astaroth, for example could not step the second BB, but not because of the frame data, more because of his large hitbox till gets hits by the hitbox of BB, even if he steps.

(MORE TO COME)
 
I appreciate it, really. I've been having problems with stepping and been looking for a base to start from. Thanks again.
 
Great thread. Other uses for frame data:
Learn what your quickest step-catching attack is,
learn how long the crouch in your TC moves last,
learn your quickest attack from full crouch,
learn which moves can cause frame traps on hit or even block,
learn when your aGI will hit if your opponent immediately attacks after blocking

Things you don't learn from frame data:
-attack pushback
-step catching

Other things the frame data in the wiki tells you:
-damage
-soul gauge damage
-complete movelist
 
I think it's worth mentioning that for frame data to really be useful you must know each characters top 10 movelist(at least) and how many frames it takes to execute each move, otherwise, you won't know when or how to properly punish.
 
Great idea for a thread. I remember trying to figure this all out and asking around but never understanding the answers. I eventually figured it out but that took time. This makes it simple to understand. You should edit everything into the first post so people don't have to go through numerous posts.

Another use worth mentioning is frame traps. That's something that messes with your head if you don't know what it is.
 
Wow... great thread... I'm sorta having a trouble understanding it... but I skimmed through it the first time... I'mma go back and re-read through it thoroughly so I may understand it better...​
 
thank you thank you thank you. i have been stuck trying to figure out what these are. now i know. thank you-
 
Why was this the only place I could find how many frames step is? I clicked here on the off-chance there was something in here beyond the "layman" level. I was lucky.
With this in hand, my play can become so much better now.
 
Since I see someone taking whats posted here at face value I feel I must comment. Sidestep starts avoiding stuff earlier than frame 11, more like 7-8. As for when it "activates", I've never heard an intelligent discussion on the matter. Asta can in fact step Mitsu BB(hit) > BB, its just harder for him than Cassandra(input needs to be made earlier).

When it comes down to stepping stuff what advantage/distance/side required can depend on both characters and the move used so I wouldnt go and remember some number, this is an instance where frame data isnt really that helpful. One is better off testing the specific situation in practice. The number that IS worth knowing is 13, it takes 13 frames to cancel sidestep into G/2G(12 frames of vulnerability, guard on the 13th).
 
Just a side note, test your step catches against Hilde and Vader if you want good results, since they both have godly step... See what you can chain together so the opponent's only option is a GI... You can do the same thing with other moves too, as long as the attack in question meets the i13 standard, then all generic 2A's get "beat out"... Keep in mind that FC 2A's are ussually i13 except Cervy, Zas, Vader, and Ivy (SW)... If you're aiming for a high attack, in this case you need an i7 or i8 followup to prevent generic 2A from tech crouching (TC) your followup, 2A's TC [9-14] meaning it starts at i9 and finishes up until the attack connects, however the generic FC 2A attacks have a TC window of [1-7] (or [1-8] in some cases) and after that 7th or 8th frame of TC the attack can no lonoger avoid Highs... If you've been AA'd out of a FC 2A you know what I mean...
 
Very nice topic, thank you geezuz! XD So, is the stepping start up different for each character? Tests must be frame specific, exclude timing difference, just test moves & steps one right after the other. Record Mode on training. Maybe we can get an specific Step Data for our characters vs other characters. Its more frame work, but I'm bored. :)

What I know from previous SC games, is that step could be done successfully down on -5 disadvantage, but from guarding or after your opponent guards, getting hit seemed to alter the step to keep getting hit if tried further.

And there's also a partial "Off-step" right after Ukeming or G-teching, characters won't be able to step for a few frames, unknown numbers of frames to me.
 
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