Tira Stance/Move Study

Vintoks

[08] Mercenary
Transplanted to help out:

Tira Move & Stance Study

I've been looking for some reference list that has all of Tira's transitions, self-dmg moves and stance properties for a while now. I haven't seen one yet so I decided to make one.

*Note that "(chance)" refers to the possibility & likelihood of changing stance.

Stance Transitions
-=-=-=-

A+K Transitions:
-=-
A+K_[A+K] 8-24 HP (low-moderate chance)*GI high/mid A's and B's

BT A+K_[A+K] 8-24 HP (low-moderate chance)*GI high/mid A's and B's

1K~A+K_[A+K] 8-24 HP (moderate chance)

BT B+KB~A+K_[A+K] 8-24 HP (moderate chance)

JS 2AB~A+K_[A+K] 8-24 HP (moderate chance)

JS 33_66_99B~A+K_[A+K] 8-24 HP (moderate chance)

JS B+K~A+K_[A+K] 8-24 HP (moderate chance) *when hit only

GS 2A+B~A+K_[A+K] 8-24 HP (moderate chance)

Other Transitions:
-=-
“Taking damage:” Guaranteed transition when you lose about 60% of your health.

Being "Ringed Out:" Not a guaranteed transition but the likelihood is very high.

K+G (high chance) *Only manual way to transition without injury

JS 44K_44[K] 5-8 HP (moderate chance)

GS 44K 5-8 HP (low chance)

JS B+K (guaranteed ~GS if hit) *GI's High/Mid

GS B+K (guaranteed ~JS, ~GS high chance) *Gi's Mid/Low

GS 4B:B (rare chance) *only seen it happen a couple times

GS 66B 5-8 HP (high chance)

GS 66K 1-4 HP (rare chance) *only seen it happen a couple times

Notes:
44K, B+K are available in both stances with similar executions, however since their hit properties are different they are listed twice. Also if you press "Retry" in a verses match your stance will carry over in the new match.


Moves available in Both Stances
-=-=-=-
AA *more dmg in GS
3A *more dmg in GS
1A
4A:A
FC 2A
WSA *more dmg in GS, GS version safer, hs (JS WSA punishable by most K’s, GS WSA punishable by Taki’s A)
7_8_9A
BT A
BT 2A
BB *more dmg in GS
6B *more dmg in GS, GS version is safe, hs (JS 6B punishable by pixies' BB)
6B8 *more dmg in GS
JS 3B *launches
GS 3B *stuns
2B *more dmg in GS
1B *more dmg in GS, GS version is safe, hs (JS 1B punishable by X/Y/Taki’s A_Amy’s 6BB)
FC 2B
WS B *more dmg in GS
7_8_9B
BT B
BT 2B
K
6K *more dmg in GS, GS version is safe, hs (JS 6K punishable by X/Y/Taki’s A_Amy’s 6BB)
2K
1K
4KB
FC 2K
WS K *more dmg in GS, shakeable CH stun in GS
7_8_9K
BT K
BT 2K
A+B
6A+B
6A+B~G
4A+B
4[A+B]
JS B+K *absorb hit ~GS
GS B+K *auto Counter ~JS, (~GS)
4B+K
WS B+K
A+K *GI High/Mid A's and B's
[A+K] *GI High/Mid A's and B's
K+G *(high chance)
BT A+K
BT [A+K]
BT B+KB
11_77A
11_77B
22K *more dmg in GS, GS version is safe, hs (JS 22K punishable by Taki’s A)
88K *more dmg in GS
11_77K *more dmg in GS
JS 44K 5-8 HP (moderate chance)
GS 44K 5-8 HP *safe (low chance; JS 44K unsafe, causes a shakeable self-stun)
JS [6 ]K
GS [6 ]K
Throws *more dmg in GS
7_8_9B+K~UD
UD>A
UD>B
UD>K

JS exclusives
-=-=-=-
6AB
2AB
4B
3K
2A+B *GI Verticals
66AA
22_88A
44AA
44A2A
44AB
33_66_99B *more dmg off 33_99
22_88B
44B *same as 11_77B
66K

Notes:
A+K transitions, 44K, and B+K (Auto GI) are the only ways you can inflict self-damage in JS.
JS 44K, GS 44K, GS 66A, and GS 44B are unique in that they will not inflict self-damage when you wiff. However JS 44[K] will inflict self-damage on wiff.

GS exclusives
-=-=-=-
2A
6A~AAAA 1-5 HP
6BK
6B~K
4B:B:B (rare chance)
3K
3K~A
2A+B
33_66_99A 1-4 HP *more 6’s more dmg
22_88A 4 HP
44A 2-5 HP *more 4’s more dmg
66B 5-8 HP *more 6’s more dmg, (high chance)
33_99B
22B 2 HP
88B 2 HP
44B 2-5 HP *more 4’s more dmg, GI's highs
66K 1-4 HP *more 6’s more dmg (rare chance)

Notes:
GS exclusives that WON’T damage you:
=
2A
6A *1st hit only, not the followup
6BK
6B~K
4B:B:B (rare chance)
3K
3K~A
2A+B
33_99B

List of all Self-Damaging Moves
-=-=-=-
All A+K Transitions 8-24 HP
JS_GS 44K 5-8 HP (On hit or block, no loss on whiff, low-moderate chance)
JS_GS B+K (Auto Counter, “JS” guaranteed ~GS if hit, “GS” guaranteed ~JS, ~GS high chance)
GS 6A~AAAA 1-5 HP
GS 33_66_99A 1-4 HP (no loss on whiff)
GS 22_88A 4 HP
GS 44A 2-5 HP
GS 66B 5-8 HP (high chance)
GS 22B 2 HP
GS 88B 2 HP
GS 44B 2-5 HP (no loss on whiff)
GS 66K 1-4 HP (rare chance)

Safety List
-=-=-=-
AA
3A
FCA
BTA
BT2A
BB
6B8
2B
BTB
BT2B
K
BTK
4A+B
4B+K
33_99K

JS Only:
-=-
3K
44AA *2nd hit
22_88B
66K

GS Only:
-=-
2A
6B *JS version unsafe (Pixies’ BB)
1B *JS version unsafe (Taki/X/Y A, Amy 6B)
FC2B
3K
2A+B
33_66_99A 1-4 HP
22_88A 4 HP
66B 5-8 HP (high chance)
33_99B
22B 2 HP
44B 2-5 HP
22K *JS version
44K 5-8 HP (low chance)

Near-safety list:
-=-=-=-
JS 22K -10
GS WSA -10
=
1A -11
WSK -11(~12?)
JS 1B -11
JS 6K -11
GS 3K~A -11
=
3B -12
8K -12
=
8A -13
2K_FC2K -13
11B -13
11K -13
JS WSA -13
GS 66K -13 1-4 HP (rare chance)
=
4A -14
11A -14
GS 6A~AAAA -14 1-5 HP
=
1K -15
4KB *2nd hit -15
A+B -15
JS 6AB *2nd hit -15
JS 6B -15
JS 22A -15
GS 4B -15

*Note:
The numbers correspond with disadvantage on block. So "-10" would mean i10 moves can punish you (IE Taki's A) and so on.


More to come...
 
Also. Something that should be mentioned and hopefully fixed... in a patch...
The PS3 Version seems to reverse two moves depending on which side you're on.

P1 side (GS) 88B and 22B are reversed on P2 side. (22B launches. 88B crushes.)
Just something I haven't seen anyone bring up. Mebbe I missed it.
 
That's normal. Cassie's SC2 22A and 88A were different. Essentially, 22 = 8WR 2, which means the characters right side, which is toward the screen, being down. On the 2P side, 8WR 2 is still the characters right side, which is away from the screen, thus being up.
 
Oh. GREAT. I suppose I never noticed because most of the time 2 and 8 8WR are usually the same moves on most of the characters I've been using. :/ ... wow I feel dumb. I've been trying to nail down some combos using those two and it's the first I recall it being switched up that way.

But thanks. I'll take the info and run with it. ...funny I -never- noticed that before.
Just another scrub.
 
Yeah its a bit strange at first, but overall it works like that because some characters 22A or whatever moves them toward their right as well, while they're 88A moves them to their left. They may look the same, but they're different, so the direction toward the right has to move them to their right also. Otherwise, if it was the same, on the 2P side, if you did 22A, you would move back up away from the screen instead of toward it.
 
If someone can confirm this for me, that would be great. I was playing some people today and I don't know if they just plain sucked or they didn't know what I was doing but the combination of JS 4A, 2B WC K seemed to be pretty hard to beat when repeated. I kept repeating that same combo and it wasn't infinite but it looked, from their perspective, hard to block.

Two things I did notice while experimenting with this is that if the kick is blocked, it's useless to try it again as they can block high. However, if the kick hits, it seems that they cannot block high quick enough or stay low (as it seems after the kick the player automatically returns to standing position). The other thing was obviously, if the first part is blocked then the kick still doesn't matter.

I only tried it on a few people so there hasn't been extensive study on it at all. These were just quick observations when I did try to do it. Thanks for any help.

EDIT: Nevermind. I worked on it some more myself and it's not that effective for continual spamming. It makes 4A safer, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. -_^
 
Updated the study with Tokis's data.

sirkibble2: It sounds like your string was effective because opponent wasn't familiar with Tira or online lag. 4A:A is great for step but a lot of character's can AA you on block, tech crouch moves can help here, but if they are on to Tira you'll probably eat the damage.

Are you sure you don't mean JS 4B? 4B is great for breaking up rushdown and spacing, following it up with things like iWSK can be very effective keepout. Also the stun off of GS WSK can be useful for pressuring a mix, or a combo if they don't shake out of it.
 
Actually, I'm talking about 6A, 2B WR K. I was on the 2P side a lot so when I wrote it, that's what was in my head. Forgive me. It's 6A. Yeah, I know about 4A:A but that's not what I was talking about. When you wrote that I realized I was on the wrong side in my mind.

So now, do you understand what I'm referring to? Sorry for the confusion.
 
Ya I follow you. That string can be useful if they are conditioned to duck or hesitate from JS 6AB. Counter hitting the B is nasty, and mixes involving WSK are usual great in general. Just be careful with your mixes off of JS 6A since both hits of the canned string give your opponent free pokes.
 
Actually, I'm talking about 6A, 2B WR K. I was on the 2P side a lot so when I wrote it, that's what was in my head. Forgive me. It's 6A. Yeah, I know about 4A:A but that's not what I was talking about. When you wrote that I realized I was on the wrong side in my mind.


I think you might just be doing 6A,B. No need for the 2 in there. And if you're not, go try doing 6A,B. It's half decent.

But still, Vintok's first response to that string is still accurate. If this is constantly working against the people you play then they're probably pretty inexperienced in the ways of Tira. It's not that difficult to block that string at all.
 
After much testing I've concluded that GG 44B guard impacts at frame 17 to frame 25. Some setups for this could be:

GS BB(hit), 44B
GS BB gives +4 on hit, meaning i13 to i21 high moves can be GI'd by 44B.

GS 4A+B, 44B
4A+B gives +2 on block.

These setups are just theory that they would even provoke a high move, but I think they could work. I'll post my discoverys when I get a chance to try it against the locals.
 
I like the BB setup, that covers a lot of typical pokes they might throw at you,
2B is good too.

For a block setup I don't see much outside of GS 22B, although I have gotten 33B to sometimes work.
 
I've been lazy about this over on CF. Gonna at least start editing your data into the frame data thread over there. I wanna get rid of this reputation 1A has of being completely safe. It's safer than it was in 3 (thank goodness) at i11 punishable which is great. Tested and confirmed Vintoks' data on that so I'll assume the rest of it is right as well. Good job.
 
I've been lazy about this over on CF. Gonna at least start editing your data into the frame data thread over there. I wanna get rid of this reputation 1A has of being completely safe. It's safer than it was in 3 (thank goodness) at i11 punishable which is great. Tested and confirmed Vintoks' data on that so I'll assume the rest of it is right as well. Good job.
Strange, from my testing (pre-1.03 patch) 1A is i12 punishible. Tira gets 44K on 1A block everytime.
 
Strange, from my testing (pre-1.03 patch) 1A is i12 punishible. Tira gets 44K on 1A block everytime.
Thanks Pixel I've got what it is. You're right but it depends on how far she is from you when you block it. Up close she eats Ivy's i12 SW 4B. With a little distance she can block it. So -12~11 is what should be listed unless there's some rule I don't know about on that.
 
Well depending on which set of frame data you believe, 44K is either i11 or i12 so whatever that is is the number of minus frames on block.

And I don't know who's saying it's completely safe but really the only people to fear are Tira, Ivy and Amy, and if you're using 1A up close you deserve to be punished anyway.

The move is still great, despite it being mildly punishable.
 
Thanks Pixel I've got what it is. You're right but it depends on how far she is from you when you block it. Up close she eats Ivy's i12 SW 4B. With a little distance she can block it. So -12~11 is what should be listed unless there's some rule I don't know about on that.
Perhaps like you said -12~-11 should be listed, but it's been noted that we should be testing frames in close range.

"All data calculated based on characters at short range distance, and front hits.
Certain moves may take more frames to impact due to characters being at medium or long range." - 8WR Wiki frame data movelist key
 
Looked into the whole 44[K] thing Tokis brought up on CF. It only exists in JS. You lose HP when you whiff with it, and you lose a ridiculous amount on block and hit. So what're the pros of it? Only one. It has a higher chance of changing you into GS. But seriously....it's horrible. But it is an option if you don't mind taking the risk and you REALLY want those 44K stun combos. If anyone finds something I didn't about it post up and I'll check it out.

EDIT: Another use for it is to make yourself reach that 40% HP left mark where she'll change automatically. But why....?
 
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