[BD] SC:BD Explained! - Page 3

Eyce_Theon · #41 08/30/2009

The GI info SU posted is new and people have thanked him for it, while the rest is either facts or opinions already posted here or in the Hilde subforum. SU can say what he wants about Hilde from his 2-3 day experience with this game, but giving it the topic title of "[BD] SC:BD Explained!" is extremely misleading.

If this topic did actually gather a list of all/general character changes and post them in one place, that'd be cool. Helpful even. I even thought that's what the topic was about until I read the first half of SUs post.

EDIT: It's late at night, and I have free time like always. I'll do some copying from Soul Arena topics for easy access info, since I'm on the top of the third page. Only copying stuff for characters that have a decent amount of data already/even have a topic in their SA -

Zasalamel

Quote: Originally Posted by Freaky-Styley (Post ID: #144813)

Had a chance to mess around with the game today, and got to test a lot of things. I must say, I like what I see.

General Changes:

66A KND + RO on NH
3B4 launches higher and makes 4A+B consistent. 66A+B4, BT B+K combo is possible on normal hit 3B4 now for good damage + ringout.
4A+B rings-out behind consistently.
6B+K has been completely fixed. 1st hit no longer pushes out on hit or block so the second part will never whiff. Damage has been reduced.
4B:B definitely sends them farther back.
33B and 44A now have huge pushout on block
4A whiff recovery improved greatly
4A tracks very well to the left.
6BA now connects post-GI (unless they re-GI).

Damage

Big damage buffs across the board. Looks like he's on par with other characters now.
Damage buff to KK
2[B+K] now does more damage than 2B+K
3AB leaves opponent in BT mixup range on NH and CH
CH 6A+B,B damage buff (60)
His 2K now does the same damage as everyone else.

Frames
+

AA is now + on hit/CH
AA seems faster and punishes more things (i13 maybe?)
1K is now +1 on hit, but damage is now same as 2K (12)
CH B+K auto-taunt is gone and it appears to be +1 NH and CH
4B safer. (-12?)
WSB safer. (-12?)
BB is safe. BB4 no longer deathfist punishable.

-

2B+K still -13 on hit
b:K still -14
3AB is now BB punishable :(
66A and 22A still -16

Other Stuff

WSK on hit no longer guarantees backthrow if they guard afterwords. :(
6A+B series still garbage, even with increased damage.
CH 3B, 66BB no longer combos
6B/6BA no longer rapes the soul gauge
Hold BT [B+K] after 4B:B no longer adds more damage :(

All in all, huge buffs across the board I'd say. He seems pretty damn solid now, I hope this comes to consoles.

Tira

Quote: Originally Posted by mikosu (Post ID: #140216)

They did the BFs right this time!

JS 44K does noticeably more damage now. Still some tiny HP loss on hit.
UD B seems to do more damage.
There is no more HP loss on whiff.
HP loss on hit and block still there.
JS B+K is still there. She seems to take regular damage during it. You still lose some HP during the auto-BF 66B.
Her CF attack (A+B+K) causes the same spin GS 22A does on air hit.
GS 66A is still vertical -_-
A+K_[A+K] still has HP loss with the headbangs.
BT B+KB rapes the SG.
BF 44A = 46, CH = 55
BF 66A = 33, CH = 38
BF 44B = 45, CH = 54
BF 66B = 65, CH = 66 (lol)
BF 44K = 22, CH = 26
BF 66K = 36, CH = 68
BF 44B 3B BF 66B = 108
GS 3B 22B BF 66B is 75 w/o tech. (up from 58)
JS 4A:A 44K GS 3kA 11K BT B+KB is 113. (up from 83)
JS back throw = 67
GS back throw = 72
JS B+K is still garbage but does the same damage as BF 66B.
GS 4A+B BF 66K does 76. (up from 70)

Mina

Quote: Originally Posted by InsaneKhent (Post ID: #144516)

Here's some info to hold you over:

- 6AK is now 0 on hit instead of -2
- 1K does 25 damage now. A sizeable increase
- 6A+B has not changed. Use it only in wall combos
- WR B launches at any range and is still safe. Closer it launches them straight up. Tip range launches them further.
- B4B now does 35 damage, still NC, and puts them in a shakable stun. Same with 1BB except that it is not NC. 4B does the same on CH
- Her A+B+K can hit grounded, but doesn't CF them on the ground.
- Pretty much all her 44A+B and 66A+B force blocks are GONE. G-O-N-E. Also, soul crushes take more blocks to pull off. 44A+B is 9 blocks, and 66A+B is 11 blocks.
- 3B is now safe (at least -12). But still doesn't launch at point blank and is negative frames
- A+B knocks down in such a way now that you can get combos off it. Pogo is somewhat guarenteed, but I'll still working on it
- 4KB, 3bK, 6K are all still unsafe. 4KB's GI properties have not improved. The 33KB launch setup is far less effective because now without the threat of 66A+B being a force block (rollable to each side), they've got no reason to get up for mixups. Also, the 33KB re-launch obviously doesn't work anymore.
- 66B knocks down at any range. Tip range is like the CH effect in IV
- The 6B and BB tip range improvements amount to nil. They're still shakable stuns.

I'll update more as I discover things.

Rock

Quote: Originally Posted by zyeoo (Post ID: #144191)

* Lowered damage on 63214:B+G, only deals 33 damage. 63214[B+G] deals 48 damage.
* New move A+B+K. Linear, guard breaks, does critical finish, and leaves them head first ground. Looks like it might have tech crouch properties. Guard breaks in 8 hits.
* 44BB, BT B+K combos and leave them face down, feet first towards you. After 44BB, 2k no longer hits them.
(44BB, BT B+K, 3B+G deals 123 damage).
* Most of his throws have changed in damage.

Code:

Throw		SC4				SC:BD
AG		40				42
BG		55				52
Either side	60				60
Back		50				72
1AG		40				35
1GB		15				20
3BG		36				45
3AG		10				10
2AG		20				30
2BG	 	14+6 ground damage		21 +9 ground damage
CT		35				24
[CT]		30?+ 20 ground			48 + 10 ground damage
JF CT		50				33

Talim

Quote: Originally Posted by ZeroEffect317 (Post ID: #144497)

tested a few things out in BD.

Assuming the frame data of moves in BD is the same as SC4...
>66A+B GB now gives +4 adv. on block instead of +1. Makes 1A+B/3B uninterruptable (useful)
>WC B:B GB is still minus on block but it's only -2 instead of -4
> Overall damage increase on combos and certain moves. (very useful)
>3BA only does 26 dmg instead of 30
> Windsault recover JF is still in the game
>AS B+K gives a bounce and combos with another AS B+K or AS A+B. (If you do AS A+B after AS B+K, you can't combo 2A+B afterwards anymore. So I don't know why you'd ever use it except maybe for ROs.)
>4AA is still garbage. Still doesn't combo on CH. (sucks)
> Overall Soul Gauge endurance increase. Hurts SG based strategies considerably. (sucks)
> 6A+B can now be quickstepped on reaction... (sucks)
> move properties seem to be similar overall. (frames, safety, etc.)
> AAB can combo on small characters after CH 1A+B
>overall movement in the game is faster which may/or may not make WC even less useful

That's all I got as I don't own the game

Kilik

Quote: Originally Posted by Something-Unique (Post ID: #144290)

General Info: The damage numbers in parenthesis relate to SC:BD over SC4.

Combos:

Asura JF = 72-Damage (-8-Damage)
Asura = 67-Damage (-2-Damage)

iFotD~Asura JF = 81-Damage
iFotD~Asura = 77-Damage

WsB = 58-Damage (+4-Damage)

MO K, 6B+K = 57-Damage (+11-Damage)
MO A, 46B, 6AAA = 64-Damage (+14-Damage)

A+B, 66B, 66B = 81-Damage (+1-Damage)
A+B, 46B, 6AAA = 89-Damage (+9-Damage)

1B[CH], 22_88B, A+K = 68-Damage (+5-Damage)
1B[CH], 22_88B, 3kB = 77-Damage (+14-Damage)

22_88B, A+K = 56-Damage (-1-Damage)
22_88B, 3kB, 6B+K = 77-Damage (+7-Damage)

66B [CH]: = 46-Damage (+8-Damage)

Note 1: Asura Dance JF is in the menu!
Note 2: Asura Dance Post iFotD has received a minor-medium size buff. The combo can no longer be angled in the air for the benefit of the opponent at all. No slight turning whatsoever. This means 3kB is no longer needed as a substitute for straight ring-outs.
Note 3: The second 1B counter hit combo is a buff but deceiving. For those that do not know in SC4 if you tech-ed backward or forward I believe after getting hit by 3kB you lose 24 extra damage (dirty secret I kept from the masses; sorry). If u tech sideways I believe it was 11 or so extra damage. What they have done is guaranteed that damage without tech in SC:BD. Similar rules apply to the same combo but with 22_88B as the starter but in SC4 it didn't scale the same for that combo.

Properties:

Asura:
1. No longer GI's stabs.
2. No longer tracks.
3. GI and Tech-Jump window equals tighter.

Working on the rest.

Ivy

Quote: Originally Posted by Davo87 (Post ID: #136361)

I went to anime con called Smash where Ubisoft sponsored and provided test play of the demo of broken destiny. This is the one I went to. Link
I was able to testplay Ivy and this is what I got:

Changes:

-CH SW 66A gives a diff stun leaving no followup. (added)

-CH WP 3A now gives a spin stun like SW 44A, and the best thing u can get is CL A,A+K.

-stance shift can no longer be held. it must be pressed. Meaning no more start in WP or SW instantly at the start of the match. stance shift manual lock can still be done by holding down the A or B button. So its possible to stay in WP after B+K moves etc.

-A+B+K is the generic Soul Gauge finisher move which auto CFs the opponent on hit when their gauge is flashing. Its that GB move we all saw from the vid.

Things I didnt test and wished I had:
-a+b[A+B]
-command throws. (I swear to god, i cant buffer on the psp.)

Ill make another post at the Broken Destiny Forum with a few other chars. But Im pissed what they did to her now. Not even a knockdown at far range with CH WP 3A. Bloody hell, is CH WP 3A>CL 236B that strong???? What the Hell!!

Sophitia

Quote: Originally Posted by Suirad (Post ID: #142214)

Alright so we've got so far:

TAS B damage on tip hit down to 40 and TAS B TAS B:4 does 116 now
AS K give's a spinning knockdown that guarantees 66B. AS K appears to be safer than before.
Second hit of TAS AA apparently stuns grounded opponent? Sounds like it could be useful...
TAS AA 236B deals 60 down from 64, suggesting that TAS AA does a bit less damage itself.
TAS AA TAS B4 is a combo now
BK damage up to 36 from 32
66B damage down from 36 to 32
A+B+K is mid but unsafe, -16 or -17 it seems like
General increase in power of step has decreased the ability of her moves to cover it, notably TAS AA first hit being stepped.

Thanks to Kane for that part.

*WS K is a high instead of a mid, i15 up from i16 and -3 on guard +7 on hit down from -2 and +8 respectively
AA is i11 from i12
66A is i19 from i18
B2 is i23 from i22
*Tracking on 1K appears to be better, tech traps better also.
*B2: B: B: B: 236B as far as I know it always JFs the last hit if you got the first 3. This notably ROs grounded opponents now.
*BB is -8 on block now(!)
*AK is now NC
*4[A] stun now lasts a little longer, allowing for better combos
*TAS AA can now sometimes RO grounded opponent's when they "flop" to sophie's left.

New Combos:

4[A] 2B8BAK 81 damage (Character specific)
4[A] TAS B 80, w/4 92, 104 w/:4 note 4 and :4 are very hard to get here because TAS B must be done exactly 1 frame late
1[K] 1K combo/techtrap
A+B+K 1K combo/techtrap
22A 1K combo/techtrap
22B TAS AA 11B+K 69-70
66A+B 1K 56 damage
AS K TAS AA 11B+K 69-70 damage, damage close to mid range
AS K 66B 42 damage, all ranges
TAS AA 66K TAS B 75
TAS AA TAS B 76, w/4 87, w/:4 97
TAS AA 6AB 58 damage and shakestun
TAS B(tip) TAS AA TAS B 108, w/4 117, w/:4 126
TAS B(tip) TAS AA 66K TAS B

Damage Changes, there are a lot but most are minor(and decreases): http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?...5&postcount=19

Speeds on given moves here, though mostly the same other than noted above: http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?...4&postcount=21

*Other frame properties are here now: http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?...4&postcount=24

/edit/I'm adding a * next to lines which have changed since the last edit.

Hilde

Quote: Originally Posted by Something-Unique (Post ID: #144250)

Combos:

C2BB, C2AA = 60-Damage
C2BB, C3A, C2BB, C2AA = 75-Damage
C3B, B+K, C2BB, C2AA = 104-Damage

C2AA = 52-Damage
C3A, C2BB, C2AA = 83-Damage

C4B = 180-Damage
C4A = 100-Damage

FC C2B = Still testing what works best since 44K no longer works
FC C3BBA = 65-Damage
FC C3AKB, B+K, C2BB, C2AA [CH] = 102-Damage

Notes:

I just thought I would point out that Hilde has been nerfed in the ring-out department but its a slight nerf. She can still ring-out from respectable distances just not with C3B. So her C3B combo has been nerfed but can still ring-out in a more than respectable manner and she has received major damage buffs.

IMO C2AA is broken as it does 52-Damage in SC:BD which means it has more value now. So basically you have a 52-Damage full tracking GB with +Frames at the C2 level which means 2 seconds to now spam. The same could be said for SC:IV but the damage was neglible.

I'm gonna be testing for the auto-gi's later but thought this was worth putting here.

Just for the record I have the game in my hands so this testing was done by me.

Batousai · #42 08/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Eyce_Theon (Post ID: #144844)

The GI info SU posted is new and people have thanked him for it, while the rest is either facts or opinions already posted here or in the Hilde subforum. SU can say what he wants about Hilde from his 2-3 day experience with this game, but giving it the topic title of "[BD] SC:BD Explained!" is extremely misleading.

If this topic did actually gather a list of all/general character changes and post them in one place, that'd be cool. Helpful even. I even thought that's what the topic was about until I read the first half of SUs post.

Well then let's make an effort from this page on to make the topic about discovering BD gameplay and not bashing characters and each other shall we?

The GI info S-U gave was very helpful and we need to encourage these kind of discoveries about the game. The videos that were linked about other characters were helpful too. If everyone has high damage combos then I suppose that's a step in the right direction? Of course that makes this game more Tekken like in the sense if you F up once its pretty much GG...

Anyways, too early to tell about that for now. Let's keep the POSITIVE discoveries coming and keep in mind we ALL love Calibur and that's why we're discussing this with such passion. How about everyone show everyone else a little R-E-S-P-E-C-T?

Eyce_Theon · #43 08/30/2009

I was busy. ^

I also thought I was going to run into some sort of text limit with all that being there

AkazukinChaCha · #44 08/30/2009

wait.... so they nerfed Mina? o_o;

OmegaXCN · #45 08/30/2009

23 frame window after GI. That's 3 more frames than SC4. That's pretty crazy....seems like they really want to make GIing more rewarding.

Eyce_Theon · #46 08/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted by AkazukinChaCha (Post ID: #144976)

wait.... so they nerfed Mina? o_o;

Here's what Khent said about her a few posts later (because I don't play her) -

Quote: Originally Posted by InsaneKhent (Post ID: #144801)

No, I'm not kidding. The force blocks aren't working because somehow in this game characters can roll faster and easily escape them. The best you'll get is a 66A+B after 1A hits. Have fun trying to hit 10 more....

...The reason Mi-na works in SC IV is because she can take huge advantage of the CF system. Now what you essentially have is the same character with a new minor buffs in a game where she can't take advantage of the CF system.

I hope a good change will be found later, because so far it just seems like Mina got neglected entirely when they buffed movement and altered CF mechanics.

*ShenOu* · #47 08/30/2009

I haven't the time to go through the thread right now.. but everyone still goes "WTF" whenever I mention this so I'm not sure if its been listed.

You can now be GI-ed out of the air.
So if your opponent GIs a 9A/9B/9K or any Tech-jump/airborne stance attack. You get "launched" by their GI and the follow up is guaranteed. No RE-GI for you~

KowtowRobinson · #48 08/30/2009

lol Mina. Hopefully we'll find new things with her, and don't forget balance won't just depend on her changes, but how she matches up to the changes in the rest of the cast.

But still, lol Mina.

Davo87 · #49 08/30/2009

Quote:

You can now be GI-ed out of the air.
So if your opponent GIs a 9A/9B/9K or any Tech-jump/airborne stance attack. You get "launched" by their GI and the follow up is guaranteed. No RE-GI for you~

Thats an interesting new system. Altho thats bad for my Ivy 9gB spam. :( And the physics would look wierd when Gi-ing Asta's 9B+K and Zasalamel's 66A+B. Im curious if that includes Asta's knee. If thats true, that would be funny.

WuHT · #50 08/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted by ShenOu (Post ID: #145010)

I haven't the time to go through the thread right now.. but everyone still goes "WTF" whenever I mention this so I'm not sure if its been listed.

You can now be GI-ed out of the air.
So if your opponent GIs a 9A/9B/9K or any Tech-jump/airborne stance attack. You get "launched" by their GI and the follow up is guaranteed. No RE-GI for you~

is there a bounce effect for 4_1G against TJ moves ?

Kane · #51 08/30/2009

was Cass 4bb:a NC in sc4? ...

it's not NC anymore ...

Nyawu · #52 08/30/2009

You gotta be kidding me. =( 4BB:A wasn't in need of any adjustments AT ALL.

docvizzo · #53 08/30/2009

4BB:A is not a NH anymore, but the A cant be ducked now. So if you hit the JF you wont get punished.

OK nerf imo, Damage of 4BB:A NH + RO was a bit much in SC4.....

KowtowRobinson · #54 08/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted by docvizzo (Post ID: #145041)

4BB:A is not a NH anymore, but the A cant be ducked now. So if you hit the JF you wont get punished.

OK nerf imo, Damage of 4BB:A NH + RO was a bit much in SC4.....

That could make it stronger in the end, I'm not sure who was trying to use 4b as a normal poke anyway. If the 3rd hit can't be ducked, that may take some of the risk out of trying to hit sideroll with it. And since catching sideroll wasn't a normal hit, it was picking them off the ground, I'd think that'd be a buff to that move.

The change to GIing air moves is something I thought they'd have changed by now. As posted above, I hope they do include a bounce effect for 4_1G.

zyeoo · #55 08/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted by ShenOu (Post ID: #145010)

You can now be GI-ed out of the air.
So if your opponent GIs a 9A/9B/9K or any Tech-jump/airborne stance attack. You get "launched" by their GI and the follow up is guaranteed. No RE-GI for you~

This is hilarious as hell when you GI Rock's B+K (buttslam) move. Everytime the AI was doing that to me I was laughing too hard, and did it some more.

Something-Unique · #56 08/30/2009

General Info:

Thanks to those who can read in between the lines and break shit down appropriately! The rest ur and idiot if u take said comments I made in regards to Hilde and blow it up as if I payed no attention to the rest of the game at the very least in a respectable manner. So if u feel i'm talking to u I am cause ur an idiot.

Ceirnian I just had to point this out but what is this I hear about you going into javachat and saying the exact same thing I said about Hilde being broken. Did u eat ur own words and flaming techniques and confess cause from what I heard u were 100% serious. If so that makes u and overzealous idiot to prove anything I say in regards to Hilde wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by SilentWall (Post ID: #144667)

Anyway, look at other characters' damage first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVOPz...e=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNxyt...e=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp6qO...e=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edK6Z...e=channel_page

Chang's friend also find this Setsuka's JF combo.
22A (CH) -> BTB+K:B - > A+KB -> i2143bA = 106?
22A (CH) -> 66A+B - > 1B:B = 110?

Just wanted to point out the differences between the above and Hilde.

Vid 1: Dampiere

11B is -21-22-Frames and the startup is probably even slower. Major difference between safe and spammable hence Hilde.

Vid 2: Nightmare

Situational wall damage resulting from a universal buff for wall damage in general. Expect to see people like Setsuka doing the same if not better.

Vid 3: Mitsurugi

Nice combo but 3B is also unsafe and the damage is good but how good in Mitsu's grand picture.

Vid 4: Mitsurugi

The same rules that apply to my comment on vid 2 Nightmare apply here.

Edit:

Setsuka Combo #1 that u posted is 88-Damage. do no forget that some of the things u see on Chang's page etc. are with all armor broken since the damage stacks for all hitzones and he has it on CH.

Setsuka Combo #2 did not test yet and i doubt it will be near that close in damage.

Don't forget the difference between safety, practicality and +Frames when it comes to high damaging tools.

Other Info:

At the end of the day those who appreciated my findings ur welcome. This will be my last attempt at anything relating to supporting or help mediating anything to do with this community. It was fun while it lasted.

I can't help holding in this info no more since its not up yet. Rock's major buff that has potentially moved him up to mid-upper mid in this game among his other buffs which have less of an impact is that his ground throws no longer scale. Rock players should be happy now!

Edit:

Also this is in regards to Ceirnians comments. Which partially explains where i am coming from.

Quote: Originally Posted by cxplaya (Post ID: #144664)

I think in reality since this game is extremely close to being a carbon copy of SC4 it won't take that long to figure out. If this was SC5 it'd be a different story.

I guess there is a possibility that someone will discover things no else sees down the line but seeing as it is so very close to SC4 it's doubtful.

Finally for what this is worth as I have been talking to alot of people after having them test there individual characters the best I can. This game is a more balanced and better game than SC4 outside of Hilde (understand that is my opinion and in terms of the overall patch/game that is how i feel). King Hilde defender needs to realize this.

In general no one is ever 100% correct but I attempt to be in the most effective manner possible! Stop turning shit around as to this day I don't understand how u manage to collect ur followers.

*Rekano* · #57 08/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted by ShenOu (Post ID: #145010)

I haven't the time to go through the thread right now.. but everyone still goes "WTF" whenever I mention this so I'm not sure if its been listed.

You can now be GI-ed out of the air.
So if your opponent GIs a 9A/9B/9K or any Tech-jump/airborne stance attack. You get "launched" by their GI and the follow up is guaranteed. No RE-GI for you~

Wait, so if I do Maxi's LO, K. Dragon Kick. If I get GI'd they get a freebie?

Thats hilarious.

Something-Unique · #58 08/30/2009

You can't combo afterwards because they fall on the floor. You can only get chip damage/grounded damage.

ShenChan · #59 08/30/2009

Yun Seong
2B, K- Second hit knocks down on NH. NC 47 dmg. Huge buff IMO. The spin from the knockdown can be comboed off walls easily. Doesn't Spin on air hit.

1K, K- Second hit launches way higher than in console. K,K,B able.

22_88B- Same as above can be comboed now/

A+K- Cannot RO forward anymore.

33_99K- Knocks down on NH

CRA+K- The RO to his right seems to be further now.

Good additions imo. A+K front RO is a loss though.

Rock

Just to add abit

1K:Ground grab: Yes, it actually works now. Lol. In console, when ur opponent tech, ground grab will jus whiff and you get free punish. But now if ur opponent techs, the ground grab will hit but off axis (no dmg), i haven't tested crouch grab to catch techers.

3A+B or 1B+G: 22B doesn't combo after that anymore. Either that or i'm too slow.

Command throw does very little damage compared to last time. Sad..

214A

A still the same.

Mitsurugi

3B launches higher now.

2K, B- no slower version. First 2K will knockdown already. Cannot be comboed anymore as the B will hack them to the floor. Damage has been buffed to 46 now. Doesn't RO front anymore.

Tira

Still loses HP on whiff from GS.

X

Her 214B+G throw is still not fixed.

That's all i found for now.

Jovian

Chickenwing · #60 08/30/2009

Just one question.

Does's asta's 66B, just a high, or was it back to what it normally was, which was both a SpMid and a High?

that is all

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