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  #41  
Old 07/03/2009
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Default Re: Post-GI Mixups

Quote: Originally Posted by D_Matt_Ma View Post (Post ID: #124900)
I think WSB is superior to bullrush in this case in every possible way.
I thought you could get the bullrush out in time, WSB would be for the delay. Might be wrong, though.
  #42  
Old 07/03/2009
Fuzion
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Default Re: Post-GI Mixups

Quote: Originally Posted by Belial View Post (Post ID: #124908)
I'm opposed to using fast options for both GI and reGI
If you GI and then wait for them to re-GI you will end up at a disadvantage. you'll either get your slow option blocked or interrupted.
I gotta disagree here. I think it's almost impossible to wind up at frame disadvantage if you're used to using this method. For me, I find it's actually addicting to use my delay option more than my immediate i20 launch because I know either im going to launch a whiffed GI on reaction or wind up at large frame advantage, so I end up not doing my immediate launch as much which can be a problem when they just stop re-GIing.

Here's an example though, lets say you block the first two hits of kiliks asura dance. kilik is now at -23 but you don't know if he's going to do the final hit or not. obviously most people won't just throw the 3rd hit out often, but let's ignore the psychology of that since this is just an example of frames and this situation can actually be easily recreated in practice mode. it's quite possible to just wait for the 3rd hit, and if it doesn't come out then punish with an i14 attack like AA (maybe i15 and i16 moves if you're really good). which means they were still at -14 by the time you recognized that the 3rd hit didnt come out and inputted your i14 move. which then means, it only took about 9 frames (to go from -23 and recover to -14 is 9 frames) to notice that their ONLY other option at that point - the 3rd hit of asura - didn't come out.

This is basically the same as a GI situation, in that they are at -20 and only have one possible option besides guard and wait to recover, which is re-GI. So basically, at best you are at about +11 by the time you notice they did not re-GI. If you're slower maybe you don't notice for another 3-5 frames and then you're at +8 or +6. But actually winding up at legitimate frame disadvantage after GIing someone and waiting I think is pretty unlikely unless you're really not used to doing it - which can happen. Just takes time to get used to if so
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  #43  
Old 07/03/2009
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Default Re: Post-GI Mixups

Fuzion:
well, fast human reaction is around 12 frames. normal is probably slower. it is safe to assume a reGI is happening around 13th frame at best, to hit 3B's etc. that basically mean, that at the very best you will realize no re-Gi is happening on frame 25 after GI'ing. which is roughly equal a -5 frame disadvantage.
what you're implying on Asura dance is another way of progressive defending and has nothing to do with reaction times.
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  #44  
Old 07/03/2009
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Default Re: Post-GI Mixups

Hmm well that's a good point about the reGI maybe not coming out until about the 13th frame of recovery, because yea probably no one is reGIing after like 2 or 3 frames of being GI'd to begin with.. also I can't remember offhand how many frames after performing 6G the GI window is open for to impact incoming attacks. Still, if you GI somebody and put them at -20 and just run up on them, you have all the time in the world for a mixup, especially if you notice that they whiffed GI. That situation happens regularly in my matches, and I never see people get GI'd and then mash throws from massive disadvantage like you said... that throw would take like 37 frames to come out, I don't see how that would be effective. After you get GI'd you're pretty much on defense and are facing a mixup, not the other way around.
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  #45  
Old 07/04/2009
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Default Re: Post-GI Mixups

Gi starts at 2nd frame and is open for 6 or 8 frames i think

quick list of what beats re-GI
1) B~g cancel (or do nothing) -> fast post GI option.
Adv: possible more dmg than generic slow option
Disadv: probably punishable on guard if no re-GI is coming.

2) Use massive GI-adv to mix up
Adv: re-GI is no longer a factor
Disadv: giving up a better (post GI) mixup in favor of a worse (normal mix up).

3) punish re-GI on reaction, if no re-GI is coming, apply a standing mixup
Adv: more damage than generic slow option.
Disadv: can be interrupted. giving up a good mixup in favor of a worse one.

4) generic slow option
Adv: safe, not interruptible
Disadv: probably less damage than fast post GI option.

Why is post GI mixup better than a generic?
It deals launcher damage on both parts and is technically safe on both parts, even if opp manages to GI thats no free damage for him. While one part of standing mixup is always unsafe, often - both parts.
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  #46  
Old 07/05/2009
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Default Re: Post-GI Mixups

For Talim, her most damaging fast option is 44AA, 2A+B ~ 56 dmg

If you're not taking 100% reliability into account than her most damaging slow options are 236B, 66B, 22B, (71 dmg) followed by 236B, 66B, 44B (67 dmg).

Sometimes one of the hits in 22B whiffs on certain characters, and the camera changing sides can screw up the 44B making it read as 66B.

Last edited by ZeroEffect317; 07/05/2009 at 10:49 PM.
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