LM to his fullest

[ZedzDead]

LM is my main and i fair quite well w/ him on a high level (i do have my bad days tho). i am very disappointed at every vid i see w/ LM where he doesnt capitalize on all his useful pokes and damaging combos. his 6+B is a fantastic and very annoying little poke, his 3+K comes out quick and just as annoying as astoroth's knee or sigs front kick. i never see anyone online or otherwise using him effectively. i play player match almost 80% of time only going to rank when that is dead. but if there are any really good LM players out there please look me up on LIVE tag: ZedzDead. i challenge anyone to a friendly game or 2 using LM. if anything, playing other LM players may show me some other avenues of total beatdowns i can deliver. i am always trying to learn new tactics and approaches w/ him. see you guys and gals online. zedz

[kAb]

i'd like to know what "damaging" combos you arent seeing. 11B 6[K] 44[K] LCA is pretty standard and some of his biggest non stun combo damage. it doesnt get much better than 3B 33A+B either.

are you talking about shitty stun combos from 66A or B+K?

i may play with you online some night to show you a few things.

[ZedzDead]

please, i welcome you. i would love to learn a thing or two. i may even show you a few. the only vids ive come across were mainly from this site and youtube. maybe 20 vids total. maybe i just found nothing but average LM players. i dont rely on stun combos in the least, but if one starts you bet your ass i'm taking it. look me up tag: ZedzDead

[RedKing]

I haven't been on live for a while but I'm down for some Lizard mirrors.

[OuTk@sT]

lol at average LM players....have you seen OOFMATIC lizzy vids?

[Rico]

Yeah, that Oofmatic is totally average compared to all of the other people he beat at NEC ;)

[echeesekid]

everyone come to my house,
123 applelane MICHIGAN FUCK YEAH

[ZedzDead]

i'd like to know what "damaging" combos you arent seeing. 11B 6[K] 44[K] LCA is pretty standard and some of his biggest non stun combo damage. it doesnt get much better than 3B 33A+B either.

are you talking about shitty stun combos from 66A or B+K?

i may play with you online some night to show you a few things.

i'm still waiting on you to come "show" me a few things. i still havent seen anything in any hi level LM videos or online that i dont do already. like i said i stay pretty busy w/ LM. i will either play him w/ broken moves, very choppy attacks and delays, or straight flowing play style. and the whole point of this thread to bring attn to LM's 6B and 3K moves and to capitalize on them (which i still dont see anyone ever use) and never mentioned a thing about shitty stun combos.

i looked up OOFMATIC's LM vids. great stuff, but seems just above average for what LM is capable of. he is basically doing what he needs to get the job done. not a putdown in the slightest mind you guys, but as anyone who looks at someone elses vids or matches its easy to see alot of missed opportunity in his play style. the only move i use the least is LM's 33B~B as of course its very hard to pull off consistently. the only chance i have to use this coveted move is after a knockdown, or a clean stun hit. other than that i use every move he has pretty often w/ 66K, 4B+K~G, 1A,K, and 44A,B being my bread and butter

ZedzDead

[KTOFF]

lol at that last post. if you can get on a ps3 add me and i'll play you. and obviously when your playing you might not always be able to capitalize on every opportunity. thats just how the game goes you cant be perfect . find a PS3 and add KTOFF. we'll play

[hotnikkelz]

Zedzdead
Play offline competition, some tourneys etc and prove your metal, noone will take you seriously otherwise.
btw 1AK, 44AB are very unimpressive attacks. Especially 1AK which is slow and unsafe as hell. If that's your bread and butter, you need to examine his moveset again. Also 33B :B is an easy jf.

[Chickenwing]

lol @ this guy who started the thread...my 3-day lizzy would tear him apart...

[Montoli]

Zedzdead
Play offline competition, some tourneys etc and prove your metal, noone will take you seriously otherwise.
btw 1AK, 44AB are very unimpressive attacks. Especially 1AK which is slow and unsafe as hell. If that's your bread and butter, you need to examine his moveset again. Also 33B :B is an easy jf.

Erm. :3::3::B:::B: is easy? So the threads in this forum, saying "timing changes based on who you do it on, their angle and distance, don't bother, not worth the effort" are wrong? Or do you have a good setup for it that removes this problem? (I'll admit that the combos you can get out of it are pretty darn cool, but the just timing seems to make them fairly impractical.)

-Montoli

[hotnikkelz]

Erm. :3::3::B:::B: is easy? So the threads in this forum, saying "timing changes based on who you do it on, their angle and distance, don't bother, not worth the effort" are wrong? Or do you have a good setup for it that removes this problem? (I'll admit that the combos you can get out of it are pretty darn cool, but the just timing seems to make them fairly impractical.)

-Montoli

It's not worth the effort imo, not cuz of the difficulty but cuz 33B is just not a good move. You just press B when the 33B hits. As the case with all those type of jfs, nothing complicated about it at all. I don't play lizard but i can land this +75% of the time unlike many other jfs.

[OuTk@sT]

supposedly you can do 33 B:B and grab opponents out of the air, like after a 44B launch. I tried and tried and tried but couldn't get it to work.

Can anyone confirm this?

[CNP]

supposedly you can do 33 B:B and grab opponents out of the air, like after a 44B launch. I tried and tried and tried but couldn't get it to work.

Can anyone confirm this?Yes, it can grab out of the air. I play Lizzy, and I avoid doing it because of it's difficulty. Just saying.

[KCFreedom10]

Yeah, as far as I know CH 44A,B is the only move where grabbing them out of the air is 100 percent possible as long as you get the timing down. I think the other launchers depend on distance.

[ShenOu]

CH 44A,B and A+B allow the 33BB to land.
44B, 3B or a LC A+K,B it doesn't.
Off a 3B your next best is probably 33A+B

Also, off LC A+K,B_44B You might want to try using 33[A] as a juggle.
You will end up at crawl right in their faces while they are on the ground, brilliant mixup/pressure position.

[kAb]

i'm still waiting on you to come "show" me a few things. i still havent seen anything in any hi level LM videos or online that i dont do already. like i said i stay pretty busy w/ LM. i will either play him w/ broken moves, very choppy attacks and delays, or straight flowing play style. and the whole point of this thread to bring attn to LM's 6B and 3K moves and to capitalize on them (which i still dont see anyone ever use) and never mentioned a thing about shitty stun combos.

i looked up OOFMATIC's LM vids. great stuff, but seems just above average for what LM is capable of. he is basically doing what he needs to get the job done. not a putdown in the slightest mind you guys, but as anyone who looks at someone elses vids or matches its easy to see alot of missed opportunity in his play style. the only move i use the least is LM's 33B~B as of course its very hard to pull off consistently. the only chance i have to use this coveted move is after a knockdown, or a clean stun hit. other than that i use every move he has pretty often w/ 66K, 4B+K~G, 1A,K, and 44A,B being my bread and butter

ZedzDead

1. you said in your original post that "i am very disappointed at every vid i see w/ LM where he doesnt capitalize on all his useful pokes and damaging combos." this would imply you use better combos than what you are seeing. i posted some of his more damaging guaranteed combos, and asked what you werent seeing. any more damage and you are getting into stun combo territory or something off of an impractical move(6K CH, 66B+KAB CH).

2. 3K and 6B. 3K is amazing, and is widely used. the speed and + frames from it cannot be ignored. it is a staple in my game and many other liz players. dont judge by what you see on vids. 6B on the other hand is not as useful in my eyes. its biggest use in my eyes is as a low punisher. there are quite a few situations where you block a low or are put into FC where 6B will punish for the best damage. there is some great utility when using 6B in this way. other than that, eh its ok. there are other things you could do at that range. it doesnt even RO on CH anymore which was my main reason for using it.

3. your bread and butter moves are pretty garbage. unless you play solely online. then i could see 1AK being alright. even so, why use 4B+KG over 4B+K for the SG damage, or 4[B+K] for the + frames and LC transition.
66K is mad unsafe(which again doesnt matter online) there are better TC options, and if you want forward RO 2B confirm the CH K is safer by far and can even be mixed with 2B A+G to some effect. 44AB isnt bad but not to be abused.

4. i dont think luz has any "broken moves" which ones do you think are.

5. finally yeah i havent been at my house lately. been busy with work and i have a GF who i stay with for a few days at a time. when i make it back to my house i'll be sure to look you up on live. maybe i'll even send you a PM to let you know when i'll be on.

if i play you online i actually dont expect to beat you. i hate online as it totally screws the way i play. i find it to be mindless and random. so if you are expecting "matches" you can forget it. but if you want to exchange ideas and see what i have to teach you then we'll be alright.

[ZedzDead]

what you are saying is true to a point, but 6B on a stun is a great knockdown poke to set up your next offense. it has very little start up and just as little recover and is very easy to react w/ this particular move to actually get a stun. and no i do not play tournaments only w/ some local friends and alot of online play. i know there is a vast difference between online and local but i take what i can get and have a great time doing it as it is all in fun too right? yes, please do add me to your list as i always like to learn from other LM players. i think i have the most "fun" playing as him than the others.

what i meant by broken moves was just the play style itself. not flowing.

[ShenOu]

kAb : I actually like 4B+K~G
It has incredibly good range and a HUGE hitbox, allowing to close-in on turtles who are waiting for you to whiff.
Most of the time, you will clash with whatever they throw out. If they block it. All they get is a grounded poke (if any at all) If they screw up their ground poke (and do like.. maybe AA, thinking they blocked 4B+K) you can abuse their whiff with an off the ground mixup (get up and throw or WS B etc.)

Again, its not THE move, but it compliments 4B+K well, more so than 4[B+K] does even.

[Montoli]

I'll confess that I really like the whole range of options you get off of 4B+K attacks. I frequently play a friend who plays X, and so ending up in LC at close range is often an invitation to be low thrown. And 4B+K has some serious disadvantage. While 4B+K~G does leave you open to ground hits, it's nice because with it, you now have THREE different positions that you can end up in after the move, two of which avoid highs and many mids, and each of which has different properties if you want to try to punish it.


Also, even though it's crazy-risky, I love getting ring outs with 4B+K~G.

[ZedzDead]

Also, even though it's crazy-risky, I love getting ring outs with 4B+K~G.

i love that ringout option. i like to set it up w/ the A+K and pray they dont shake it, 44B then go into a 44A,B going straight into the 4B+K~G getting you a very nice ringout. the combo travels enough distance to bring most opponents close enough to the edge w/o you going over. but yes, 4B+K~G is the icing on the combo.


Zedzdead
Play offline competition, some tourneys etc and prove your metal, noone will take you seriously otherwise.
btw 1AK, 44AB are very unimpressive attacks. Especially 1AK which is slow and unsafe as hell. If that's your bread and butter, you need to examine his moveset again. Also 33B :B is an easy jf.
wow, ok, why dont you come pull this off on me consistently, then i will eat those words. and if you think 44A,B is unimpressive, then you are not using this move correctly if at all. actually, i hardly ever use 1A,K and agree that it is unsafe. i use 88/22K much more than 1A,K. but let me guess, that move is garbage too right?


lol @ this guy who started the thread...my 3-day lizzy would tear him apart...

thats funny^^

btw, for anyone who tells me again that the only way to prove myself (or even discuss damn LM combos) and take me seriously is thru tournaments and offline play, just go ahead and call yourselves pricks. i am 33 yrs old and have a family. sorry, but i do not attend tournaments, i do not cosplay, and i dont live in my parents basement. i will take playing SC4 any way i can even if it is mainly online play. and i'm still waiting for LIVE invites. i would have thought that the elitists that were telling me how garbage my combos are would have tried to show me by now. Zedz

[OuTk@sT]

...sorry, but i do not attend tournaments, i do not cosplay, and i dont live in my parents basement...

Appology accepted

[ZedzDead]

Appology accepted

now that we got that out the way Lol, maybe we can have a few friendly matches. :p :sc2liz4:

[ZedzDead]

supposedly you can do 33 B:B and grab opponents out of the air, like after a 44B launch. I tried and tried and tried but couldn't get it to work.

Can anyone confirm this?

CH 44A,B and A+B allow the 33BB to land.
44B, 3B or a LC A+K,B it doesn't.
Off a 3B your next best is probably 33A+B

Also, off LC A+K,B_44B You might want to try using 33[A] as a juggle.
You will end up at crawl right in their faces while they are on the ground, brilliant mixup/pressure position.

this is correct. these are the only options that allow for 33B:B to connect in the air. it seems as tho the jf window is smaller to me than a ground hit 33B:B. maybe i am wrong, but regardless i may throw this move out there if i ever find a practical opportunity like after a long stun. imo the reward does not exceed the risk to use alot.

[Foxpaw]

Your LM seemed pretty good. Take into account though from our matches that I'm not very good.

You didn't seem to get into crawl enough.

[ZedzDead]

i dont utilize crawl enough i know. anyhow, good games. z

[Signia]

btw, for anyone who tells me again that the only way to prove myself (or even discuss damn LM combos) and take me seriously is thru tournaments and offline play, just go ahead and call yourselves pricks. i am 33 yrs old and have a family. sorry, but i do not attend tournaments, i do not cosplay, and i dont live in my parents basement. i will take playing SC4 any way i can even if it is mainly online play. and i'm still waiting for LIVE invites. i would have thought that the elitists that were telling me how garbage my combos are would have tried to show me by now. Zedz

You'd be surprised, lots of people like you go to tournaments and gatherings.

[Fuzion]

Here's a vid of me fighting mitsu. It might not have enough 1A,K or 4B+K~G to your liking, but it does have some BB punishment and even a crawl JI. Enjoy, any feedback is appreciated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-TX8WqW9Oc&feature=channel_page

[OuTk@sT]

at 0:44~0:45 you did a 3A that looked almost like a variable cancel... wtf was that?

Practice the 11B~g 6K 44[K]~LC A combo, you landed the 11B at least a few times and missed out on some hefty free dmg. I miss this combo once in a while too, it's the timing on the G to turn around that I rush sometimes and it doesn't work :)

You really didn't use 3K at all, that's a superb move and shouldn't be forgotten. When you get into those little BB trades with mitsu, you know when you guard his BB and then do your BB and then he does his BB again.. well, instead of the BB try using the 3K, if you know the guy is going to guard, might as well throw something that is more advantageous.

Mitsus BB is i16 and -6 on guard

lizzys BB is i16 and -10 on guard

lizzys 3K is i15 and -4 on guard

Didn't see any 8[B+K] UB's tossed into the fray on oki, it's a quality move, especially after a throw. Not good to whore it, but it's still a good tool to use once in a while.

oh, btw.. 1AK is so unsafe...should be used sparingly, like on oki maybe. It slow enough too that you can almost hit confirm the 1A before inputting the K... like you should be able to see if it's going to land or not. Great damage on that one :D

[Fuzion]

at 0:44~0:45 you did a 3A that looked almost like a variable cancel... wtf was that?

Practice the 11B~g 6K 44[K]~LC A combo, you landed the 11B at least a few times and missed out on some hefty free dmg. I miss this combo once in a while too, it's the timing on the G to turn around that I rush sometimes and it doesn't work :)

You really didn't use 3K at all, that's a superb move and shouldn't be forgotten. When you get into those little BB trades with mitsu, you know when you guard his BB and then do your BB and then he does his BB again.. well, instead of the BB try using the 3K, if you know the guy is going to guard, might as well throw something that is more advantageous.

Mitsus BB is i16 and -6 on guard

lizzys BB is i16 and -10 on guard

lizzys 3K is i15 and -4 on guard

Didn't see any 8[B+K] UB's tossed into the fray on oki, it's a quality move, especially after a throw. Not good to whore it, but it's still a good tool to use once in a while.

oh, btw.. 1AK is so unsafe...should be used sparingly, like on oki maybe. It slow enough too that you can almost hit confirm the 1A before inputting the K... like you should be able to see if it's going to land or not. Great damage on that one :D

The thing you found at 0:45 I'm not sure about, I think it's actually a problem or lost frame with the youtube video (since the sound is also off from the video). I don't remember it happening weird like that when I played the match. What was weird was how come 3A didnt punish his 3B! ;] I was late I guess

Yea missed 11B combos definitely suck.. missed a couple in this match but shored it up by the last match, I don't think I missed any more in my later matches and grand finals.

3K hmm I'm still not sure. I see what you're saying about the frames of it, but it is about half the damage of BB so.. I dunno. Also mitsu's BB is i17 and lizardman's is i16, so I have an advantage in this matchup in particular. There were quite a few mitsu specific things I did in this match. You can whore unsafe -17 3B against mitsu for the most part, because his best open field punishment is just 6A.

Also I know 1A,K is terrible, I never use it. I was just poking fun at the original poster's "bread and butter" movelist.

[ZedzDead]

go ahead and poke fun, its all in fun right. maybe i just said that b/c i dont use it enough and wanted anyone who read that to block low. whatever, i have fun playing this game and not for bragging rights. i get my ass handed to me just as much as i dish it out. the whole point of this worthless topic was that i hardly ever see anyone i have played or seen on a vid use LM's 6B move. Z

[kingbastek]

I use Lizardman's 6B move all the time. I love it! I consider myself to be pretty good with him, but I play offline against my cousin so its a lot more intense. I played online for a while (just to get to level 20 and get the honor for it), but I didnt really like it at all compared to offline. I dont know if its just me that has a shitty connection or something, but even the tiniest amount of lag can ruin a match for me since I am so used to offline and I like to GI two hit moves like Mitsu's 66B,B (Im not even sure thats the right move lol, but its the one where he swings up and then down and says "time to die!", its a pretty popular move online from what I played). GIing these moves doesnt work online for me. Anyways, yeah Lizardman's 6B has recently become my savior move because my cousin plays Amy and he likes to rush in with her B+K series moves which lead to some damaging combos (I just need to learn to shake stuns better and this wouldnt be too much of a problem). Anyways he's pretty annoyed with 6B because from our many matches against each other, Ive come to anticipate a rush from him so I throw it out there and he gets knocked back again lol. I'm SO glad it's a mid-hitting move!!

[Zoob]

This thread has been helpful thanks, alot of these moves are great :D